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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think this is normal, or should I/we interfere more

105 replies

ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 18:23

My two teenagers, DD15 and DS16 are always, ALWAYS arguing. The whole fucking time. We can't be in the same room all of us together without them either muttering insults to each other or just plain out right shouting.
We're having dinner, they argue about who's eating what, how much the other has had etc. If we're playing a board game, one of them is always making fun of the other, taking it too far and then it all becomes a huge argument.
DS has form for always criticising DD. Things like "oh you're a failure", "you're so dumb", "look at her, she's pure evil", "you'll never get anywhere in life", "You always fail at maths" Angry and then whenever she says something about anything, he will SIGH sarcastically, mutter "ugh, idiot"... etc etc
DD on the other hand, loves interjecting all conversations with something mean about her brother: "no one cares what you think", "who said we want to know your opinion", "you have no friends", "yeah right that's so brilliant, you think you're so great", "yeah we really don't know it was you who finished the cake" Angry
Really NOT NICE!!! And I really hate it!!!
DH can't handle it and when it gets to a certain point, he gets upset and tells them off, to which DS replies with a very infuriating satisfied smile and DD acts like a horrified victim and leaves the room.
I try to ignore until I feel it's going to go too far, and I either change the subject, or say something like "enough, if you won't stop it please leave the table/room until you calm down".
This doesn't change the fact that the same happens every day every time they're in the same room. They used to have an ok relationship, normal sibling stuff.
We try very hard to never take sides. DH thinks we have to come up with more strategies and be more involved in trying to change this. But it just seems impossible to talk about this with them at the moment. Whenever we try, they think we're taking the other one's "side". UGH!!
AIBU in thinking this is normal teenage stuff and they'll grow out of it?

OP posts:
nooka · 28/12/2017 19:08

Also really don't be afraid of losing your shit if they don't stop. Nothing wrong with occasionally yelling in my opinion. Best used before you get upset.

It can be quite helpful to have them both upset with you and your dh. Allies in adversity and all that. But also important for them to know that their actions have an effect on everyone.

HermioneAndTheSniffle · 28/12/2017 19:09

Nope, this would not be tolerated in my house.
Actually, I do pull up Dc1 or dc2 on that. Because yes they do tends to make snarky comments etc...
But they need to learn that, even if it’s about their dsibling, it doesn’t mean they can do it.

I just tend to say that such comment isn’t acceptable as it’s unkind. And that they would probably never say that to a friend so why do they think it’s ok to say it to anyone else.
I also do tend to label feelings (such as anger) and remind them that they cannot use other people as a (emotional) punching bowl to release it,

The problem imo is that one starts, then the other tend to want to make up for it and is answering in an even more sarcastic/angry way. And then it goes. Ime, it can also become a habit very quickly (because they expect the other to answer in that way so will bite before they are bitten iyswim)

OnTheRise · 28/12/2017 19:09

That sounds awful. My children used to bicker a lot but this sounds like it's far worse.

I think you need to sit them both down and tell them that they're being abusive to one another, and that such abuse can cause longterm damage to emotion and self esteem. That it's bad enough that they are treating each other like this; but that if they continue they will probably treat their partners in the same way, and that could get them in trouble with the law.

Work out a strategy to stop them doing it. So, if you hear either of them criticising the other, they lose something.

Make them realise this is serious, nasty behaviour.

Make them realise it will have consequences for them both down the road.

Make them stop it, now.

StrawBasket · 28/12/2017 19:11

Bickering is completely normal, but disrespectful and rude attitude in YOUR house is not.

I completely agree with above: zero tolerance, not entering into a debate at all, and I would try the jar too! (I might use that, thanks posters!)

I wouldn't worry about the arguments, they would just piss me off and wouldn't tolerate them either.

ThePlatypusAlwaysTriumphs · 28/12/2017 19:12

Oh OP, I feel your pain! I have 2 dds, 14 and 12, who have started this! I tried having an insult jar, but enforcing it is nigh on impossible. I've explained that it upsets me, but they say that's just the way EVERYONE speaks to each other Hmm. Seems to be since dd2 went to high school. I am an only child and always wished I had a sister, so I'm probably a little sensitive, but they fight about anything, today, dd2 wouldn't let dd1s cat in because he had been chasing a mouse, cue huge row!
Hoping people will come on here and tell me they grow out of it...

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 19:12

Candle I haven't lost my shit with them yet but once I just left the table and said I'm not willing to put up with such behaviour, I really don't have to. I can't say they were mortified but they did calm down. Then DH told them to keep quiet if they can't find anything nice to say and to apologise to mum, which they did looking at each other with blame and we all ate in awkward silence. Still better than trying to eat listening to all those snarky comments.

OP posts:
CremeFresh · 28/12/2017 19:14

I took part in a therapy called MST - multi systemic therapy. It focuses on how the parent reacts to unwanted or bad behaviour . It was pretty full on but really got results. The main theory is that there are consequences for every bad behaviour. I would take their phone away or ban electronic devices, ground them every single time. It causes ructions at first but they learn quickly.

Batteriesallgone · 28/12/2017 19:16

Consistency is key at any age.

Only implement the jar if you’re certain you will be consistent with it (I couldn’t be. I’d forget!)

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 19:17

I think where we go wrong is that we try to engage in debate, talk about it etc. Maybe a no debate on the spot approach would work better with this.

OP posts:
DistanceCall · 28/12/2017 19:18

Caroline Hirons - who has four children - calls the teenage years "Vietnam for parents".

Put a stop to it. You don't have to live in such an unpleasant atmosphere.

BubblegumFactory · 28/12/2017 19:18

Are you in a position to ask them
Individually, calmly, quietly to explain why they do it?
Often this kind of behaviour is a sort of self- defence mechanism in teenagers to hide their own insecurities and issues but they clearly aren’t picking up on how it is affecting you all.
It might open a conversation about how being nice makes you feel better about yourself?

Mxyzptlk · 28/12/2017 19:20

I try to ignore until I feel it's going to go too far,

Don't ignore and let it escalate. Tell them straight away to stop it or leave the room.

Maelstrop · 28/12/2017 19:20

family meeting. Tell them they are destroying the family and negatively impacting on your marriage. Zero tolerance from hereon. Any event spoilt by one will be terminated. A game will be over, dinner time, the perpetrator has to leave their dinner and the table immediately etc.

Seriously this but you and your DH must be 100% consistent. It’s the only thing that works IME.

LucilleBluth · 28/12/2017 19:22

I have two DSs 14 and 16 (and a 7 yo DD). They are friends 50% of the time, the other 50 they argue like cat and dog.

I'm an only child and I play that card....'oh if only I had a older/younger brother, you don't know how lucky you are.....you do know that you guys have each other's backs no matter what because you are BROTHERS. A bit of emotional blackmail never does any harm imo.

nooka · 28/12/2017 19:22

I think it's totally normal to bicker and to fight, teenagers do have a lot of pent up emotions and it's easy to get into bad habits. It also seems normal for siblings to say they don't like each other (my two have been told they are very unusual in that they do hang out together a fair bit) so they may well feel it's perfectly OK to be horrible to each other.

But I also think that the dynamics of this pair of siblings is beyond bickering and could be described as mutually abusive. OP you say this behaviour is new but what were the dynamics like when they were younger? My children are also close in age and one plus point of that I found as a parent is that I could be totally even handed when they got into physical fights as they were evenly matched. My friends with different aged siblings had to be much more careful about the bigger one hurting the smaller one where I could pretty much ignore the dynamics and focus on just stopping the fight dishing out punishments all round.

roundaboutthetown · 28/12/2017 19:25

ReadyForGoodNews - if they are at the same school and so close together in age, are you sure something specific didn't provoke it? Eg someone fancying someone else and a sibling getting involved to spoil it? Some comment that someone made at school, or a rumour started? It seems a bit odd the nastiness suddenly ramped up.

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 19:25

Vietnam for parents Grin

Bubblegum yes we have. They have both told us many reasons why the other "gets on their nerves". If I tried to sort that out, I would be in an endless labyrinth. I think at this point I just need them to know that no matter how upset they get with each other, that doesn't mean they can become rude and nasty.

OP posts:
Rossigigi · 28/12/2017 19:25

I had this with my ds (13 & 18) and I took an approach that many will shout nooooo at, but I did this when the arguing got beyond a joke one day:

''That's it! I've had a fg gutsful of the both of you. You treat each other like st, you bring the fg mood down in the house, and I'm pd off to fk! From now on, you stay away from each other (hard when they share a room but I wasn't thinking!) you eat in separate rooms, I don't want to hear another f*g word off either of you! Now get out of my sight until you can start acting like decent human beings''

It worked because I've never swore at my children before. They just stood their shellshocked. Because they knew then for me to swear that I was at the end of my tether with them.
But it worked. They apologised to me but they also apologised to each other- without being asked.
Don't get me wrong, we still have 'days' but all I say now is 'carry on and I'm going to loose it' and thankfully that day scared them enough, that they calm the behaviour down.
I'm not saying copy me! Lol but maybe try something that is out of the norm to them.

stilltheykeepcoming · 28/12/2017 19:25

I would have a calm heart-to-heart with each of them separately, to try to get to the bottom of why it is happening. I'd also explain how much it upsets you that the atmosphere in the house is so unpleasant, and that (as another pp says) everyone has the right to live at home without being abused.

If that doesn't work, I'd scream the place down at them the next time it happens, yell at them that you can't stand it any more and walk out of the house. Stun them into silence - the shock of that might make it sink in.

Thedietstartsnow · 28/12/2017 19:26

Attention seeking behaviour....we had a family meeting once a week,we had a stone we passed round the table.only the person holding the stone could talk..we cleared up a lot of issues that way..we had a diary and wrote down in it what each weeks problems were so we could check things had improved the following week.I also refused to listen to any nastyness and I would walk away from them immediately they started...I also made sure they got plenty of one to one attention ,no competing for time with parents...check things are ok at school ,no bullying,might be worth a chat with the form tutors at school just to see things are ok.

Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 19:31

nooka when they were younger, they had a good relationship and played together really well. The occasional "she/he won't let me use their toy" but other than that, they were "normal" until a few months ago. DS has always been protective of DD, been there for her when she went through hard times in year 7. Sometimes I think maybe he overdid the protective brother part and DD pushed him away, and it hurt his feelings? I don't know, it's one theory I have.
roundabout Not that I'm aware of. One of them would've said something about it but I'll try to ask.

OP posts:
Original poster
ReadyForGoodNews · 28/12/2017 19:36

Rossi I'm taking notes Grin

OP posts:
kittyclarke · 28/12/2017 19:37

Absolutely zero tolerance for that type of rudeness here. It’s so disrespectful to each other and to their parents. Mine are younger that yours and mostly get along but of course they fight at times. Everyone is allowed have a row, it’s healthy to clear the air but in general afterwards, no name calling, no grudges and we must all speak to each other in the way we would like to be spoken to ourselves. Basic manners in a civilised society.

RemainOptimistic · 28/12/2017 19:42

You must simply not ignore it until it escalates. The very first negative comment gets jumped on by you or DH. It is not acceptable under any circumstances. They'll soon get bored of bickering if the very first comment is shut down instantly. I'd send them to their rooms separately if either of them made a comment after that first warning. It has to be zero tolerance, no excuses. Teenagers are testing boundaries, lay them down firmly!

Hullabaloo40 · 28/12/2017 19:42

One tactic I've used is that when my 2 are being mean they have to go and sit in a room together until they can be nice to each other. They tend to hate that so ensures that they are nice to each other as quickly as possible. They then have to say one nice thing about the other (which they also hate), keep repeating and mine soon got fed up.