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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a racist expression?

145 replies

Mrsknackered · 28/12/2017 11:29

'One cotton picking minute'. My GM uses it A LOT especially when dealing with our DC (who are mixed race, although this is irrelevant)
DP has already pulled her up on the amount of gollys displayed around the house (in paintings, cards, china ornomants) he explained the history of them too her, she seemed to understand, then the next time she had put them back up!
I told her I think the expression has racist/slavery roots and showed her the google result for the phrase (which the top post describes it as an awful racist phrase) she seemed upset and said that it definitely isn't, and she's sure it is said in an episode of Vicar of Dibley (Hmm)
Whilst I was packing the car to leave this morning, I heard her use it twice! I spoke to my mum who said that 'I shouldn't be too upset, as she honestly isn't doing it with bad intentions' but it's really grating on me.
AIBU? Everyone seems to think I'm being over the top! It is racist isn't it?!

OP posts:
RavingRoo · 28/12/2017 11:31

They are your kids. If you disagree and have made your feelings clear (and she still ignores them) then ensure she never gets to see your kids again.

Reallytired17 · 28/12/2017 11:32

I’d be more Shock about the golliwogs, tbh.

Notreallyarsed · 28/12/2017 11:32

It certainly has racist roots, and whether or not she is intending it, you’ve asked her not to use the phrase around your children.

Notreallyarsed · 28/12/2017 11:32

Sorry posted too soon, therefore she shouldn’t use it!

TeenTimesTwo · 28/12/2017 11:33

I think she may be right about the Vicar of Dibley.

Question: Are you saying that any expression that has its roots in slavery is now banned? Isn't that almost trying to cover up slavery and the language it added?

Notreallyarsed · 28/12/2017 11:33

Fucking gollys? Good grief!! There was one in our new house when we viewed it and I judged. A LOT! I can’t believe people still have those hideous things.

Pointeshoes · 28/12/2017 11:34

I would just ignore it

MrsMaxwell · 28/12/2017 11:34

Feel your pain OP.

I have a mixed race child and have many people in my life (my age 40s) who think it’s ok to say half cast Hmm.

One colleague even told me “it’s not offensive”.

Osolea · 28/12/2017 11:35

It has racist origins, but I don't think that automatically makes the person saying it racist. Your GM, like all of us, will be a product of her time, I don't think it's very kind to keep criticising a habit she has developed when you know there are no racist intentions behind it. I'd let it go.

OwlinaTree · 28/12/2017 11:42

Yes it is racist, but I doubt she is meaning to use it to be racist. She shouldn't be using it if it offends you or upsets you.

How would I deal with this? Tricky. I've let mildly racist comments I felt uncomfortable with go when made by family tbh, as I don't want the bad feeling. I try to make a mild comment back - 'wow, that's an old fashioned view!' Or 'haven't heard that for a while, don't think we are still using that word?' but it is hard sometimes when you know people aren't actually being racist in intent iyswim.

CurryWorst · 28/12/2017 11:45

She learned it from Bugs Bunny. Hmm

I think there is an issue here with non americans taking american meanings of words and calling them racist. It probably is there, but people were picking cotton in England long before slaves did in America.
In american english its probably a bit racist, but you're not speaking american english.

Are you quite sure you don't also use words and phrases with racist origins? Do you use the words hooligan or bugger or paddy wagon? Or long time no see, or no can do?Sold down the river, or the grandfather clause?

Probably shouldn't be throwing stones there....

dinosaursandtea · 28/12/2017 11:48

Actually, she sounds pretty racist. She has racist toys, uses racist phrases....lady's a racist.

Idreamofalandrover · 28/12/2017 11:48

Fearne cotton explained what her surname was to Morgan Freeman as "cotton as in cotton picking" a few years ago and totally got away with it.

Now shes a best selling author and each year switches to a new topic to "write" a book along with her ghost writer. Actually I'm going to write a topic on this.

Original poster
Mrsknackered · 28/12/2017 11:52

Actually no I don't use, 'no can do', bugger, chav, sold down the river, etc. However, I have once been told that 'knackered' is offensive. So you're right about that CurryWorst I think the issue here is that I worry about the children repeating it (for example, at school) and the fact that I've tried to show her that it is a racist term and she has continued to use it in front of them. I'd be mortified if they repeated it in front of external people.

OP posts:
FitBitFanClub · 28/12/2017 11:56

Where does "long time, no see" and "no can do" come from then? I had no idea they might be considered unacceptable terms.

Original poster
Mrsknackered · 28/12/2017 12:00

FitBit I believe it is mocking the Chinese pidgin (sp?) English (there's more history to it than that, but that's the basis)

OP posts:
Confusedbeetle · 28/12/2017 12:01

The whole point about offensive language is intent. Many words that started off ok like Spastic became offensive because of the way it was used as an insult. Some words are overtly offensive like the N word. Expressions originating from slavery might be, or might not. An older person would use them without thinking, an in fact might be just a habit. Cultures change and so does acceptable language. Children easily learn there are some words they should not say, without need in to know the reason. She may be a racist, she may not. She may just not have grasped that Golliwogs are no longer acceptable. I grew up with The black and white minstrels, not acceptable now. It is hard but you can't reflect our present values to someone from another age. You should just gently say, in theses days some people might be offended, but I know you dont mean any offence

Alibobbob · 28/12/2017 12:05

I agree with Osolea when growing up we plaid with golliwogs and my sister collected the badges from the jam. Older people do not seem to think of these as racist. I have grown up and what was acceptable then (30ish years ago) isn’t acceptable now but some older people don’t seem to get that.

What is her fascination with golliwogs? Has she always had them? Does she view them as toys? Are these something she has kept as a momentous from her kids early toys?

Maybe her son needs to have a quiet word. I would never have golliwogs in my house.

Phalenopsisgirl · 28/12/2017 12:09

Again, it would really depend on other factors. This is just a saying, because something has history intertwined with racism doesn’t mean the intent behind it being used is always racist. I collected golly broaches as a child, they came with jam! There was not a racist thought in my mind, I just liked the little men badges.

Rebeccaslicker · 28/12/2017 12:10

My grandma used to wonder aloud why she couldn't call the people in her town of Pakistani heritage the P word. She simply couldn't grasp that it was offensive; she simply saw it as a shortening of the original word. But when the vile context that it has been used in was explained to her, she stopped using it. Your GM is not as bad as that, but she should respect your request IMO. Ignorance of the origin or change over time of an expression is one thing - I was told by a friend that pikey meant cheap or crappy; I had absolutely no idea what it actually meant for a long time Blush - but not taking it on board once it's been pointed out to you is not ok, whatever your age.

Original poster
Mrsknackered · 28/12/2017 12:10

She was fostered from newborn as her mother died during childbirth, and she had a golliwog in her children's home until her (actually lovely) foster Mum threw it away because it was tatty! She's always searched for a replacement, and has always said they're lovely.
She sent us a new home card, with a pixture of a golli, teddy and a duck (I think) having a picnic. Thankfully DP found it funny but obviously disapproved.

This sounds really bizarre, but I'm sure her use of these expressions have increased as she ages.

OP posts:
CandODad · 28/12/2017 12:11

“Cotton picking hands” could be easily offensive in that context.
Not sure why “cotton picking minute” is the same though.

Thymeout · 28/12/2017 12:15

It wasn't only slaves that picked cotton. Poor whites worked in the fields both before and after slavery. Johnny Cash and Glen Campbell, for two. I think the phrase is linked to the nature of the job, rather than the people who did it.

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 28/12/2017 12:17

Fucking gollys? Good grief!! There was one in our new house when we viewed it and I judged. A LOT! I can’t believe people still have those hideous things.

I have DM's gollys. They were hers from when she was little and I found them in her wardrobe when I was clearing her house. I couldn't bring myself to get rid of them as they were something she had loved as a child so they are now in a bag in my garage.

I suppose to some people that make me racist but to me it's not about the fact they are gollys (I don't approve of them and wouldn't have them on display) but because they were something of DMs.

Original poster
Mrsknackered · 28/12/2017 12:18

Yes but I doubt Johnny Cash was taken from his home, stripped of his culture, raped, beaten and given his slave owners name.

That's the difference; he worked. That's not slavery.

OP posts: