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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think you can't tell an 11 month old off?

108 replies

moita · 26/12/2017 18:37

Longtime lurker, first time poster. More than happy to be told YABU as tiredness may have tipped me over the edge.

My just turned 11 month old is a happy, sociable boy but he has a habit of shouting/screaming: mostly this is when he's overtired and needs a nap.

He started doing this over Christmas dinner. I knew it was from overstimulation/excitment. I've tried to keep to his routine over Christmas but things like having lunch later and having people over/new toys have thrown him out.

FIL objected to his shouting - leaned over the table to DS and started calling him a bad baby and bad DS's name. MIL objected but he argued he needs to learn.

I was a bit Shock and tried to explain that DS has no other way to communicate, hence his frustration.

I ended up putting DS down for a nap and he was back to his normal cheerful self after that.

I haven't spoken to DH about it yet but AIBU to think FIL was wrong? I blame myself for not napping DS quicker rather than my baby for being tired!

OP posts:
RicottaPancakes · 26/12/2017 20:18

What's rubbish about it Spikeyball?

cathf · 26/12/2017 20:26

There are some seriously overindulged babies on MN.
Everyone I know irl would not think it at all strange to shush a screaming 11-month-old. They would however think it very strange if the mum stormed out, as one pp has suggested just because someone had the sense to check the previous baby.
I love the way posters state with such certainty that you can't discipline a baby and lay into someone who says you can.
We are raising a seriously overindulged, pampered and spoilt generation, sadly

Unihorn · 26/12/2017 20:54

You can certainly attempt to shush a baby but it will probably make no difference at 11 months and you shouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work. It's nothing to do with overindulging or "new" methods of parenting.

DeadButDelicious · 26/12/2017 20:54

DD is 13 months, she loves a good squeal, she's learning about her voice and what it can do. I understand it's very normal at that age.

She understands No and Ah ah and knows to stop doing what she's doing when she hears it, whether she actually does or not is another matter all together but we do tend to follow up by diverting her attention away from what she's doing. If she were screaming at the table I would distract her with a toy etc and if she really wouldn't calm down I'd remove her from the situation, I certainly wouldn't tell her she was bad. Sitting in the high chair is boring it's understandable that they will get frustrated.

We have a situation we're my nephew is a good 6 months older than DD so is a lot further along in his communication skills, MIL has a habit of forgetting this and whilst she doesn't tell her off as such she talks to her like she would the 19 month old, which is pointless, she doesn't understand. She called DD unkind for not sharing the other day, which I didn't like, she's 1, she doesn't understand the concept of sharing yet, she just sees something she wants, it has nothing to do with kindness.

I think your FIL was BU.

LizzieSiddal · 26/12/2017 21:04

Of course you can “correct” a 12 month olds behaviour and they will respond.

We’ve been watching old video recordings of the dc over Xmas. In the best/funniest/cutest, it’s dd2s first birthday. It’s about 15 mins long and there are several occasions when she’s told “be careful” “don’t touch” “ah, ah hot” and she’s responded “correctly” by changing what she’s about to do.

Anyone who says you can’t do this is talking rubbish.

ItsChristmoose · 26/12/2017 21:11

I don't know why it matters what he said since so many of you are convinced an 11mth old has no understanding of everything.

Unihorn, do you really think an 11mth old doesn't understand at all a stern 'ah ah!'? My youngest is now 2 so maybe I'm remembering wrong but I'm pretty sure they understood it for hairpulling, ripping glasses off, high pitched screaming. They may not have stopped but it's never too early to communicate appropriately. And no issue if they don't get it at all. But I do think it's an issue if you offer no corrective communication when they would have understood brevauss then you're just communicating that it's fine to scream.

People often treat babies and children as a lot dumber than they are in my opinion.

halfwitpicker · 26/12/2017 21:13

It'd be satisfying for your FIL, that's all.

laura6032 · 26/12/2017 21:16

I don't think it's right to scald and name call any age child for being upset, so YANBU.

WarwickDavisAsPlates · 26/12/2017 22:13

Your Fil definitely went about it the wrong way. But I'd be quite concerned about an 11 month old who couldn't understand the word "no".

Also surely someone had to do something? A child shouldn't be allowed to sit there screaming while people try and enjoy dinner. Couldn't you have just distracted the baby by talking to him or something?

Blueskyrain · 26/12/2017 22:23

Even if he can't respond now, by making it clear (in a non mean way), that it's not acceptable behaviour, is laying the groundwork for the future. How on earth will he ever understand 'no', if you don't use it. For what it's worth, I think babies that age can understand a lot more than we think, and that as long as it's done right (no 'no, we do not scream at the dinner table', rather than 'shut up you bad baby'), I think it an onky be a good thing.

cathf · 26/12/2017 22:31

There seems to have been a big switch in the way babies are raised on the last few years.
I still can't get my head around the loops parents jump through so their baby never cries, ever, and now it seems they cannot be chastised when they are causing problems to other people.
When will it end? Children do not regulate their own behaviour and it is a parents' job to teach them. It seems to me that we are not doing that now.

Mumsymcmumface · 26/12/2017 22:32

I would hazard a guess that 99% of babies that age would have no clue what ah ah means.

You are completely right, if by 11 months no one has ever tried to control or influence their behaviour with language and telling them what is right and what is wrong.

A chile who has been communicated with re their behaviour should absolutely know to modify their behaviour in response to certain messages from their parents.

If not at 11 months when do you start communicating innapropriate behaviour to them?

ilovepixie · 26/12/2017 22:37

Of course you can tell them off. Teach them the word no. They will soon understand what it means.

ilovepixie · 26/12/2017 22:39

ItsChristmoose congratulations on having super understanding children but I would hazard a guess that 99% of babies that age would have no clue what ah ah means

Actually my mum does this to all her grandkids and they understood it means no, from a young age.

UrgentScurryfunge · 26/12/2017 22:43

I remember DS at 10 months reacting to "no!" by pausing, looking at me, screaming then bashing his head on the floor. He then very quickly learned to bash his head with varying degrees of hardness according to the surface of the floor, reserving full dramatics for carpets, gentle taps for wood, and pausing an inch off the floor and giving the gentlest of taps for tiles. So at 10 months he'd sussed that "no!" meant he wasn't going to get his own way easily. Grin

In reality at that age, simple verbal cues such as "no" or "hot" do work alongside other strategies like distraction or removing from the situation. Also accepting their limits such as when they are too tired/ hungry for any kind of reason and learning to prevent the situation from arising (amid constantly changing goalposts Wink)

Telling them they're being bad, or lengthy verbose monologues about their behaviour is unlikely to achieve much.

RavingRoo · 27/12/2017 00:29

Barring disability an 11 mth old who has been properly socialized should be able to be reasoned with. So I disagree here. Sounds like you don’t try to correct dc behaviour, which is fine I guess but you need to tell others of your choice. No point moaning about your fil telling a child off if he had no idea you don’t like the baby to be told off

deadringer · 27/12/2017 01:00

I think a lot of 11 month olds do understand no but as a pp said an over tired one is not going to be reasonable. Fil is a bit of a dick to call a baby bad for acting like a baby though, especially if you removed him as quickly as you reasonably could.

Witchend · 27/12/2017 01:17

At 11 months dd2 was using "no" (by shaking head) correctly, so she certainly understood it. If that sounds like a boast, I can assure you that her using "no" was not fun. Grin

Elsiejane · 27/12/2017 01:23

In your case YANBU. I wouldnt be happy with your FiL at all and when theyre tired, you cant help their actions and behaviour! However my 12 mo understands the word 'no' and when i say his full name quite strictly. We try to only use it when hes trying to get into somewhere he should etc but he has understood what it means for a good couple months now! He usually immediatly fake cries and throws a tantrum but this doesnt last longer than a minute and hes back to his usual happy self. He is content, social happy eyc so has no effect on his behaviour.

CorbynsBumFlannel · 27/12/2017 01:48

Sounds like Fil maybe thought he was being funny.

RemainOptimistic · 27/12/2017 02:10

The debate is getting irrelevant to the OP which was about an 11 month old who is over tired and over stimulated using its voice to communicate its needs. The scenario described in the OP is not one where "no" or "ah ah" is appropriate. I don't think it's healthy at all to shush children who are communicating to get their needs met. Notice I am not saying wants, I'm saying needs!

It genuinely upsets me to see children shushed or told off when they're clearly overtired/overstimulated/hungry/cold etc and the caregiver just isn't meeting their needs.

FIL is a wanker for telling off an 11 month old in what sounds like a diatribe.

Lollipop30 · 27/12/2017 02:14

Yes an 11month old will understand the word no.
But in relation to an overtired grumpy 11month old who needed a nap, all he was doing was communicating in the way possible to him, that he was tired and needed a nap.
Being tired isn’t naughty? Is it? It’s not like you needed to teach him not to throw his food/pull hair/touch something hot etc, to which ‘no’ would have been a perfectly acceptable response.
It’s never acceptable to refer to a child as bad, self fulfilling prophecy and all that.

Spikeyball · 27/12/2017 07:23

"we are taught that unless a child has an inate sense of right and wrong by 18 months, they have missed the boat and will never have a git feeling for it ever."

Which child psychologist taught you that?

I agree with pp that this situation is child communicating need not a child being naughty.

Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 07:29

Which child psychologist taught you that?

"a" child psychologist didn't teach us that, it is standard, basic, level 1 information for anyone training to care for children with attachment disorders or similar.

Greenshoots1 · 27/12/2017 07:34

I agree with pp that this situation is child communicating need not a child being naughty.

children need to learn that they cannot go around "communicating" any way they want.

I don't agree with the FILs approach, but that is not the question. The question was can you tell an 11 month baby off.

Yes absolutely.

In an age appropriate way, and with the understanding that they don't have the self control to always be automatically obedient.

In fact, if an 11 month old doesn't have some sense of discipline they are behind.

Not severely or irreparably, but there will come a point, fairly soon, when the damage WILL be severe and irreparable.