To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

@nightshirt I would love to be wrong but I am probably not far off .
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By simply making the majority of PIP claimants lose the care element of PIP this automatically removes the SDP element given with ESA

This then becomes a change of circumstance as far as UC is concerned so you will be forced to claim it and its bingo full house you have lost £63 a week and even if you win the care element of PIP back on appeal your still £63 a week worse off as you don't get SDP with UC

Anyone who gets the care element of PIP and gets SDP really needs to make sure that when they have a review for PIP or are transferred over from DLA to PIP that the claim is pretty much 100 percent

I know some self employed people did take the piss under the old system but many are just doing what they can when employment is difficult to come by / not compatible with circumstances. U.C. really screws over anyone with a variable income, as they are assumed to be earning at least FT x MinWage every month.

Eg. A self employed farmer will earn most money in autumn (harvest) despite working equally hard all year. The old system would average out the income across the year and pay accordingly.

Whereas U.C. will calculate as though they had a full time wage for the 10 months when they were actually getting nothing, reducing there payment during this time. The harvest payments are then viewed as only funding the two months in which they are received so payments would be stopped during this time.

There are not enough jobs for every person to be in full-time employment.

@zoenichole158 Please contact your credit card company and anyone else that you normally pay out to and explain the situation. They may hopefully reduce payments whilst you are in this situation.

I hope that you and your family manage to have a nice Christmas

No there aren't enough jobs for everyone to be in full time employment because if there is surplus labour then large corporations have all of the power. People can be sacked and replaced quickly so people aren't able to complain about poor pay and working conditions. If there were surplus jobs and full employment then corporations wouldn't hold the same power over people.

I am registered disabled. Have been on full rate long term ESA (formerly Incapacity Benefit) for 14 years. (Also DLA but that is totally separate to everything else) Due to a cock up, long story, I had to apply for Universal Credit (UC) which replaces EVERYTHING except DLA (or PIP as it's now called) and Child Benefit.
I am also a single parent.

Due to UC's continuous mistakes, I was made to 're-prove' my disabilities which took them EIGHT LONG MONTHS!!!!

During this time, I was given a total monthly income of £1,000! This was expected to cover my £700 rent, bills and feed my daughter and I for each month! It was hell!!!! My daughter often had bread & butter for tea and sometimes, honest truth, I ate her crusts and skipped tea to save the food.

UC didn't give a shiny shite. "Nothing we can do Madam. It takes as long as it takes" ~hangs up~

Please have a quick browse of this report that the CAB have just published. In which I am (anonymously) featured on Page 14. I am Ms B and they have stated that I have a little boy rather than a girl to further anonymise me. Report: cachd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Final-copy-Carrying-the-cost.pdf

Also, by being mistakenly made to claim UC, I lost the Severe Disablement Premium which cannot be reinstated. Also I received slightly more on ESA (Incapacity). It has been calculated that by attempting to work (again, very long, complex story) I have lost nearly £15k.

ALL UC claimants are made to wait SIX WEEKS with zero income after initially making a claim. Standard protocol.

It is inhuman and needs to be stopped. I nearly had to put my Daughter into temporary Foster Care!!

@nightshirt you didn’t understand my response to sistersofmercy at all (also not sure you understand what a straw man is)

@HelenaDove that is very true. So many people prattle on about helping “the poor and needy” (their words) yet when it actually comes to it have enormous prejudices towards anyone who is struggling or needs a bit of support. Grenfell sadly brought into the open the really awful attitudes to social housing tenants and/or people on low income/benefits. And what’s changed? Nothing.

Why isn't more being done to make men pay for their children rather than leaving it to the woman to claim benefits to help raise them

More should be done. My dad owes my mum thousands of pounds. Whenever she tries to claim anything via the CMS (and previously the CSA) he quits his job and ends up paying a measly £5 a week.

My ex makes up any lie he can to the CMS and they just accept what he says! He owes me a lot of money and refuses to pay a penny!
He said to CMS "How do I know the money is going on the child?" - !!!!
I still have to provide for our child regardless of whether he pays or not! It all goes into the same pot! I don't buy anything for myself, I don't go out drinking, I don't have any friends I just spend every single day of the week with my daughter, taking her to soft Play if I can afford it, taking her to Ballet classes, taking her to the park, taking her to my Mums or spending time with her at home! My money couldn't possibly be spent any other way! My clothes have holes in Just so that I can clothe our child. Breaks my heart that he says that to them. God knows what the CMS must think of me

Unfortunately the poor and needy don't actually mean the poor and needy. Kath et al can go on as much as they like about those who have umpteen kids and choose this as a lifestyle choice. Oh, it must be prevented! And of course they don't mean the likes of us disabled folks for one second, they're frequently pointing that out in posts (although dare comment that you were clever enough to get a bargain...) What they don't understand is that they've been brainwashed, and I understand that they don't think they have and that they consider themselves to be too clever to have been so, but the fact is that this is an idealogical shafting of the poor, all poor, including those of us with disabilities. People who fiddle it, people who are idle, people who find a way round the system have always existed, they always will. No matter what any government does to prevent this sort of thing, there will always be a way round it and the government will always point out that people are finding ways round it. In the meantime, those of us who aren't fiddling but are doing ridiculous hours of care ( I went to bed at five this morning, was up at nine, dd needed a significant amount of care and I managed to pull a muscle in my groin) are getting paid 62 quid a week. I work an eighteen hour day looking after two adults. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't go out to the pictures, pubs, meals. I am the face of a benefits scrounger, the real face and there are a lot of us. You'll never see us though because the government/Daily Fail would rather you saw and judged the few who are on the take, so that they can push their Victorian values and have you support them. Every single time you come on one of these threads having a go at benefit scroungers, a person, a real person is frightened and distressed. They cry because they're scared that's what people think of them. Every time you challenge them because they (according to you) spent their money unwisely, they panic. They hurt. And then they still have to get on with turning their dd in the night, or holding their son's hand whilst he has a panic attack, or has to get up to change their sheets because they've messed the bed. In the meantime I'm sure you've slept well in your nice warm, well fed mealy mouthed little homes.

More should be done to make the NRP but it doesn't absolve the RP from their financial responsibilities.

Too many want a child but expect others to pay. If you have no job, know you will be quitting work or are too ill to work then having a child is irresponsible. A basic of parenting is financial support. Tax credits and now UC still allow people to reproduce with no intent on supporting that child.

What would be better is if the automatic 50/50 shared care applied in the event of a split so neither side paid the other party and they covered the child's costs on their days. Meaning childcare costs are less etc so no excuse not to work. Then neither side could walk away and not pay or be responsible. So many put so little thought into bringing children into the world.

Yellow you bitch! You have no idea when I became disabled or how I ended up having a child. How fucking DARE you?

Too many want a child but expect others to pay. If you have no job, know you will be quitting work or are too ill to work then having a child is irresponsible

circumstances can change. Just because you are well, healthy and financially secure today, it doesn't mean it will be the case tomorrow.

A basic of parenting is financial support yes but circumstances can change. If you get hit by a car and end up in a wheelchair, get diagnosed with a long term illness etc etc. Redundancy, divorce etc I could go on and on. Have you did a full on stress test of your finances? I have savings and equity, only two kids and I reckon could last 9 months in any of these scenarios. Not long. It's very smug to say oh they shouldn't have had children....most of us shouldn't then unless very wealthy if you follow that argument to its logical conclusion.

Lets just sterilise the poor, eh?

There are some terrible attitudes to the poor on this thread. And it is these that have allowed the Government to get away with treating the poor like shit.

I watched a programme about young street homeless people being sanctioned. Absolutely criminal to sanction someone who is sleeping on the streets.

I have really mixed feelings on this one.
I'm from a working class background, parents from council estates etc but both of them worked ft and moved up the ladder a little.
I've worked constantly in pt jobs since about 14. Went ft the very day after I finished uni (which I funded myself through loans which I've paid off).
I have 3 kids and work ft, as does my dh. There are months where we struggle to the point where I prioritise food over bills and have an arrangement in place for my mortgage arrears.
It has never ever entered my psyche not to work. It isn't an option. You get a job and support yourself.
I have cousins and an aunt who have life limiting conditions and I've seen first hand how supportive the benefits system has been to them and their families.
Their homes have been made comfortable, they have been given cars etc to help with mobility and give them a chance at a normal life, shopping trips, days out etc. They are given money to pay for round the clock care which is amazing.
Then on the other hand I have some other family members who are as capable as my dh and I of working but simply chose not to. They boast about what to say when being assessed for pip. They are given houses then sub let them, they don't work and have all day at home to be there for their kids when I'm breaking my back carting mine out in the car at 6:30 am to get them to daycare so we can go to work. It really annoys me.
What the government need to do is target people like these effectively and stop punishing those who actually need the support.
They are punishing the many for the crimes of the few and it really isn't fair. I dread to think what is ahead for those genuinely in need... it's heartbreaking

Lets just sterilise the poor, eh?

It's not about that.

Those over the threadhold for benefits make their choices based on affordability. That dictates where they live, the number of children and hours they work.

It's then completely unfair to have a system that allows those that won't self support to make choices beyond their financial capabilities. They are rewarded for being irresponsible.

The safety net was designed to catch those in need not to pay for people to have children, live in expensive areas or to choose not to work.

Yellow read my post because that's the reality of benefits, not this tale that you've been spun. Every single time you say 'the safety net' and then qualify you're statement with 'but not for', it's me that suffers. Every. single. time. You're a DWP policy makers wet dream.

But again, people are irresponsible so what do you propose should happen to them? Its easy to say stop helping but what does that lead to? If you feel they are being rewarded, the opposite would be to punish surely? That doesn't sit well with me. I'm genuinely curious, take the money away and what then will be the long term outcome? Workhouses, orphanage, slums....

ticketytock People who abuse the system will always do so. And meanwhile others suffer. And yes I know there was/is abuse of the system.

The thing that gets me is that every one takes it that people who get help don't work. Before I claimed tax credits I was loving wirh my dh who worked ft and did 4 night shifts a week at a supermarket to look after our 3 children during the day.

He has left and quit his job. I now work ft during the day in an admin but only get minimum wage so get help from tax credits to top up my wages. I'm not the smartest person and am trying my best to move up but I'm so worried about uc coming in as I don't know how I will survive. My wages pay the rent and council tax and that's it. I know I should never have had my children back then but my crystal ball wasn't working back then. Wages are so low even if all these scroungers got ft work they would likely only get min wage which would mean they would probably still need help.