To ask why Universal Credit is so terrible? (Not goady)

[evilharpy]

I've seen several threads (one today about food banks which I can't seem to find now) where people have had some strong things to say about Universal Credit and the feeling seems to be that it is contributing to the poverty problem and forcing people to rely on food banks and causing more problems than it's helping with.

I'm wondering what exactly makes it so terrible and why it's so much worse than what came before it. Google hasn't been much help as most of the results are just official links on how to apply for it etc. But it seems to be that it's paid monthly rather than weekly or fortnightly and there's a long wait to get it?

I would just like to understand a bit more about it. And I don't mean this to be in any way insensitive or goady.

What’s impossible?

Ignore it Gilead. Hope you’re ok.

It takes weeks to kick in. My partner was sacked from his job for being disabled and needing operations (yes they can do that apparently) whilst I'm on maternity leave (8 months pregnant) I'm only getting statutory maternity pay and he's only getting PIP. The doctors and consultants have signed my partner as unfit for work now. I went on maternity leave the week before he was sacked. So we've gone from having over £2000 a month between us to having £780 a month between us which only just about covers rent. Any savings have gone on Christmas presents (bought before all this happened) and we've just been told that we won't be getting benefits this month so I can only pay the rent and council tax. Nothing else is getting paid. Not to mention getting food. Dreading having the letters from credit card company and electric company etc not to mention my car finance. We've gone from keeping our head above the water to drowning majorly and the government can't help. It's so frustrating because we will eventually get help but that's not helping here and now and we will go further into debt waiting for help until we can get back on our feet. Feel like a failure to my mum who is having to bail us out :( it's a shit system x

@NeedsaSockAmnesty, I have learnt something new from this thread. So some people with 3 children and more have been switched to UC and are now only getting the equivalent of tax credits for 2 children? Yet the government said reducing the tax credit component of UC to two families would not be applied retrospectively and only for children born from April 2017? Also the areas where families with 3 children or more are still being told to apply under tax credits is not going to be until the children reach 16 so the cuts are coming to them? So the govt lied?

@zoenichole158, thank you for sharing your experience of UC. I am sorry how hard it is.

Zoe that’s awful. I’m so sorry.

This is the reality for the majority of claimants afaik. But peo0le would rather put their fingers in their ears and pretend it’s just the awful povvos that will be affected, not the nice hard working families like yourselves.

Here’s to 2018 being a better year for you both.

You can’t even concede that someone complaining that they are struggling to pay their heating bill from last year but three weeks ago posts that she purchases her cheese by the 2.5kg and bought a vacuum sealer machine is not a case of someone choosing to prioritise something pretty unnecessary over something pretty bloody necessary.

@wishingandwaiting, your post drips with judgment. It's deeply unpleasant having to justify each expenditure when on benefits. I am on disablity benefits and I can see the govt are softening up the public to not protest when they suggest people on benefits should be only allowed food stamps and vouchers as we are too irresponsible to make our own budgeting decisions (except for when it comes to UC being paid monthly) or buy anything remotely nice. It's bad enough getting a life changing illness, I don't look forward to being given no cash to spend as I see fit. It will be dehumanising for all claimants.

Alcohol, fatty food, cigarettes and being over weight doesn't give people heart attacks. This cunting government does.

Nightshirt I agree with you that that is the next step in this godawful plan. I’ve said it for a while now,that’s why we have all the regular channel 5 programmes and DM headlines about ‘benefit families’ buying unnecessary treats.

It’s all to ease the transition towards food stamps.

I really, really agree with you. The problem is this cultural issue you describe is very real but is as a result of 20 years over reliance on the state. The point of welfare return is to change that culture in the next 20 years, not now, not next year or maybe not in 5 years.

@cherrycokewinning, you refer to the last 20 years above, yet before tax credits there was family credit for families on low incomes I believe. Also even with that there were higher rates of child poverty and single parent families were particularly destitute. There may well needed to have been some changes to certain tax credits, working hours etc, but this government and the coalition with the 2011 Welfare Reform Bill have swung to the far side of the pendulum the other way and there will be stress and significant financial hardship. I have already blathered on about all the disability cuts as being disabled this is the area I have most knowledge on.

In my view and as some academics believe the aim is to reduce the welfare state considerably to under the poverty line levels and switch to private insurance for sickness and out of work cover as happens in in the American system. I support the social democratic model as followed by the Scandinavian countries. It makes for a better society for all I believe. The growing gap between the very wealthy and the middle incomes is very unbalanced. Furthermore, there will be a section of society living below the poverty line and destitute. It's not a society I wish for this country.

Yes @anachronisticcorpse, I believe government have already mooted it and is their long term plan. More copying of the American model who already have dehumanising food stamps. . It always amazed me that America was the richest country in the world yet offered so little support for its poor and sick. If you couldn't afford private insurance you were in trouble. Depressing to see our govt taking us down that road.

@jingleladies, no need to answer my question. I shouldn't be asking you to explain how your care set up works, apologies if it seemed prying. I have read up on carer's Allowance and understand it more now.

nightshirt, you're right, what the poster who complained failed to add when they went through my posts was that I grow some of my veg and the rest I get from the local market, where of course it's cheaper than supermarkets etc. But of course local markets won't be in a position to accept food vouchers. They'll probably do a deal with a specific supermarket. Oh, and we won't be allowed to buy wine, or nice coffee, god forbid anyone with a disability or on benefits of any sort should have a treat.

anachronistic, thanks.

From what I have read If you get the severe disabilty premium and you live alone and have no one caring for you you can potentially lose £62.95 a week so just under 3k a year
However there is transitional protection if you already have this so when transferred over to UC you won't lose it if your being transferred or migrated as the DWP call over naturally by the DWP
It's protected so you get the same amount however it will be eroded by inflation and and other annual benefit rises.

However if you claim SDP and you then claim UC as your own choice such as trying to go back to work or there is a change in your circumstances such as moving house , partner moving in ( you would possibly lose it anyway if this happened ) or have another child or a child is taken of your claim pretty much any change in your benefit entitlement could lose you SDP .

Or possibly if you lose your PIP appeal ( ie you lose the care element of PIP) you will lose the SDP straight away .as its LinkedIn you live alone and have no one caring for you .
.
In the past if you lost your care element of PIP but won it on appeal the SDP would be backdated to the begining of when you lost it but now you simply wouldn't be entitled to do this once you lose it .its not going to be replaced .

Pretty much any change in circumstance means you can lose the SDP

If your disabled and you get this I would advise you to do nothing at all and do your upmost not to incite any change no matter how minor you may think it is .

The cynical person in me thinks that lots of disabled people will now wrongly initially lose the care element of PIP when being reviewed in order to ensure they lose the SDP element .
So even if they win back the care element of PIP on appeal they won't be able to get the SDP again as its a change in there claim
Cynical or just seeing it as it is .

The thing that’s always baffled me about the ‘benefit scroungers’ argument is who actually gives a fuck? I mean really, how does Sally down the road with four kids and no job, or Dave and Kelly who only work part time, or Geoff who you’re pretty sure can actually walk without a stick, how do their lives really affect yours?

Do people think that if we take their money away you’ll see a difference in your own life? That the national debt will be all paid off? If we force them into these mythical jobs for all, do you think you’ll get served quicker in Costa?

I mean, what is the issue? Why is it such a hot topic for so many people who actually have zero skin in the game? Why do we need to address the ‘issue’ of these imaginary masses who could work but choose not to? Who actually cares?

Life on benefits isn’t aspirational, it’s not a picnic, and tbh if people are jealous or begrudging of people getting free money to sit around watching Jeremy Kyle all day they are welcome to try it.

I for one want to live in a society where we all do what we can. Very very few people actively choose to live on benefits, and those that do make that choice...well who gives a shit, really. If that’s where their life has led them we need to look at why that is and help the next generation to aim higher. But they’re not hurting anybody. And their life isn’t something to envy.

Meanwhile bankers bonuses, corporations not paying tax, mps expenses, these things actually hurt us. But weirdly don’t elicit the same visceral reaction.

Gee Whiz, I was going to say that I'd love to sit around watching Jeremy Kyle, but actually I know I would be shouting at the box within seconds! I'm not just disabled, I care for two adults with disabilities. I get, when I'm lucky four hours to six hours sleep a night, and it's always broken. I need to do wash loads daily. I cook daily. I don't have the damned time to watch Jeremy.
And yes, I'd love to know why people are complaining about my benefits, particularly when you consider how much money carers save the government as well as people with disabilities living independent lives because let's face it, put all those disabled folk in care and the government really would be financially shafted!

Yes, exactly! It’s such a backwards argument when you think of it.

There’s a really weird dichotomy where paid work is seen as contributing, and raising kids or caring is seen as scrounging. It’s fucking mind bending.

@Gilead, yes, I agree. And you shouldn't have to give a breakdown of your household budget. It was a deeply unpleasant comment by that person and I can't believe they scrolled through your posts to assess your spending which will never give the full picture. Buying bulk cheese sounded a good economising measure to me also!

Gilead Nightshirt

The snideyness on here and the latest Grenfell thread really shows that goodwill to all men is really evident on Mumsnet this Christmas.

@magpie, @anachronistic and @gilead, agree with all your 3 comments above.

Magpie, I think your suspicions may well happen. The DWP have acted horribly so far so wouldn't put it past them.

“Under UC this choice is removed and children are in childcare, but how many suitable jobs are there for these women? How much suitable childcare is there available for these children?" This is exactly the issue- tax credits allowed parents to have bigger families than they could afford to support. When is taken away, they can’t see a way out. It’s not personal. It’s a generation of people doing this, and it can’t carry on to the next generation. Something has to change

@cherrycokewinning, firstly you are presenting a straw man argument here. Sistsrsofmercy observations of the problems with the UC were not restricted to only larger families. She was talking about families of all sizes, including one and two parent families. This article says "To quote the Economist: "Though most of them seem to end up in newspapers, in 2011 there were just 130 families in the country with 10 children claiming at least one out-of-work benefit. Only 8% of benefit claimants have three or more children. What evidence there is suggests that, on average, unemployed people have similar numbers of children to employed people ... it is not clear at all that benefits are a significant incentive to have children." www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/06/welfare-britain-facts-myths

Thanks @HelenaDove, yes, quite, very sad :(

The snideyness on here and the latest Grenfell thread really shows that goodwill to all men is really evident on Mumsnet this Christmas

missed off the MN smiley first time.

From what I have read If you get the severe disabilty premium and you live alone and have no one caring for you you can potentially lose £62.95 a week so just under 3k a year

@magpie, yes you are correct SDP is £62.95 per week, I get it. I put my benefits through the calculator on the entitledto website and it worked out under UC with no severe disablity premium obviously as abolished under UC, I would be getting £49 per week less than now. You are right I have transitional cover at least for a few years, but as u said many ways SDP can be lost even with that cover and new claimants will lose it immediately.

I wonder how many have ended up on UC after being widowed. DH has COPD and ischemic heart disease and im his full time carer.

hes 23 years my senior and on state pension. When hes not around anymore i will likely end up on UC

No children.