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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Pay for trial day in job....

106 replies

Allabitmuchisntit · 19/12/2017 10:12

Hi ladies, dd (15) has just done 2 evenings work for a small business on a trial basis. We chatted last night and I've decided it's too many hours for her so have messaged the business owner to say she won't be back in etc. All fine. Where does dd stand with payment for the hours she has worked? She's entitled to pay for any hours she has worked there right?

OP posts:
MidniteScribbler · 19/12/2017 11:52

I didn't realise you were there and saw exactly what happened midnite.

Oh fuck it, I didn't realise that someone asking for opinions on an anonymous internet forum about something that happened to an unnamed teenager at an unnamed business meant that I couldn't post an opinion unless I had actually witness this unnamed teenager, at their unnamed business, on the unnamed day that they were actually there.

cdtaylornats · 19/12/2017 11:54

From www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/News/is-it-legal-not-to-be-paid-for-a-trial-shift/1050416304.html

Top Tips for Trial Shift Workers
Where an employer suggests you come in for a trial shift, don't be afraid to discuss the details of this shift with them. You should ask how long the shift will last, what is expected of you on shift, whether you will be paid or whether they will pay you expenses.
If the shift is only for a couple of hours, the employer is not obliged to pay you. You could ask them to pay any expenses if you are going to be out of pocket but unfortunately you may just have to do the work voluntarily if you really want the job.
Where the employer tells you that you are to work a full shift, or even multiple shifts, they should pay you at least the National Minimum Wage. At this point, this has ceased to be a trial and is entering contract of employment territory.
Don't be afraid to say that you are not willing to work a full shift or multiple shifts unpaid – it may be that the employer is just trying to save some money by not paying you.
You should agree pay, expenses and any other benefits before you do the shift. If possible, get this in an email or in writing. This way, the employer must provide what has been agreed and you have evidence of the agreement.

NaughtToThreeSadOnions · 19/12/2017 12:01

Op I'm very sorry but I have a feeling your deliberately getting people's backs up.

While yes there are some expressing astonishment at you being involved, wether or not I or they agree with that your right you know your daughter best. And i actually read it as the decision came out of a discussion with your daughter. However you are being asked perfectly genuine questions that will us to understand the situation better, and therefore advice you better.

For instance their just asking what was agreed up front, you've not answered this. Even student jobs will have a notice period, was this stated up front or was it a zero hours ad hoc arrangement?

If it was a zero hours we'll let you know then you might not have broken the notice period which you see changes wether your daughter gets paid or not.

All your doing is calling people bitches and being rude to people

Nicknacky · 19/12/2017 12:07

How does your daughter feel about not being allowed to do the job she presumably wanted?

Aridane · 19/12/2017 12:10

Bloody hell. OP, you're in a bad mood today!

Aki99 · 19/12/2017 12:13

What were the terms of her contract, written or verbal?

Iwantamarshmallow · 19/12/2017 12:13

When I was at uni I applied for a job in a pub and was asked to go for an unpaid trial shift. After the shift they explained because the manager was off sick and had not seen me work I would need to come back the following week for another unpaid trial shift . During my 3rd trial shift I overheard a staff member telling a customer it was the managers night off , after being told I would need to return a 4th time I realised I was actually covering the managers shift ..for free.
After I refused to go back they called my friend who had also applied and did the same to her, luckily I had warned her so she left when she was told the manager was off sick. Id be very weary of trial shifts

TheRottweiler · 19/12/2017 12:15

iggley...

Exactly.

So HOW do you know that that is exactly what the poster was doing?

You don't.

crunchymint · 19/12/2017 12:18

I do think if someone is old enough to take on a paid job, they are old enough to communicate with the employer by themselves. At least in the first instance. Some children are babied so much.

Wineasaurous · 19/12/2017 12:18

I'm sorry but you should be teaching her how to deal with employers herself. If she has willingly entered into a job, signed a contract or accepted a position in writing then she should also terminate her contract otherwise she will never learn.
I would take your involvement as breaking contract.

crunchymint · 19/12/2017 12:19

And it is better to learn how to deal with an employer in jobs like this that don't really matter long term.

catwoozle · 19/12/2017 12:19

Generally if it's more than two hours she should be paid.

iggleypiggly · 19/12/2017 12:19

Rottweiler... if OP doesn’t explain and drip feeds we can only respond to her post...

Original poster
Allabitmuchisntit · 19/12/2017 12:21

cdtaylor
Thank you that's very helpful. Just the kind of thing I was after.
aridane I'm not in a bad mood at all Smile. I'm in a very good mood actually. Just can't be bothered typing a lot. I've got the advice I wanted. Job done.
Merry Christmas everyone! Grin

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 19/12/2017 12:23

So HOW do you know that that is exactly what the poster was doing?

The same way you know the poster was doing "absolutely the right thing"...?

Original poster
Allabitmuchisntit · 19/12/2017 12:25

Nicknacky - ooooh you've presumed an awful lot there!!
I've given all the information that was needed to answer the question.
The proof of this is....well, the question has been answered! Good isn't it? Grin

OP posts:
PersianCatLady · 19/12/2017 12:27

Calling it a 'trial period' does not exempt the employer from minimum wage legislation
There needs to be two distinct types of "trial period"

First one where someone goes to a workplace for about four hours to get an idea of the job and to see if they are capable of it.

For example, in a pub they could pull a few pints, use the till and get a general understanding of how things are done.

At the end of this both the employer and potential employee can decide what they want to do with regards a job.

I do not think that there should be the expectation of any pay for this kind of "trial period".

However, once someone has gone beyond this and is basically working unsupervised, just like any other employee in the workplace, I do not consider this to be a "trial period".

It is more like a free and easy way to get someone to do all the rubbish tasks for you because they are hoping to get an actual
job at the end of it.

This kind of "trial period" is a farce and should be called what it is "working a shift" and therefore it should be paid.

There is really no need for "extended trial periods" or "probationary periods" for employees in the UK.

You can employ someone in the UK and for the first two years of their employment you can dismiss them for any reason you like without fear of them claiming unfair dismissal and taking you to an ET*

  • There are some things that don't have the two year period for ET claims, known as "automatically unfair reasons". These are things like pregnancy, discrimination and the like.
Nicknacky · 19/12/2017 12:27

How have I presumed anything? I presumed she wanted the job as she applied for it, for it and and a trial. I don't think that's unreasonable to assume!

Original poster
Allabitmuchisntit · 19/12/2017 12:29

Sadonions - I'm not being rude I don't think?

And it's not all I'm doing.
I've got a mug of tea and some stollen on the go here.

OP posts:
rcit · 19/12/2017 12:30

Difficult to say really.

In 2 trial shifts, has your dd put in work that will help the business or have the shifts been spent training her?

I personally would leave it anyway. Surely if its a small business, the owner would have spent time with your DD that (s)he could have spent working?

LightastheBreeze · 19/12/2017 12:34

Was this all done legally, don’t you have to notify someone if they are at school and the employer has to get some sort of permit. Also only 2 hours work allowed after school

Pengggwn · 19/12/2017 12:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lazypuppy · 19/12/2017 12:39

Company i used to work for only paid for trial shifts if person was then offered a job. If not, it was unpaid

PersianCatLady · 19/12/2017 12:40

After a couple of months the owner asked would she like to learn how to do the job, and made it clear that it would take approx 6-8 weeks to learn how to do it as she would be shadowing and helping another person and that this was unpaid
I think that is very wrong.

How old was your DD at the time??

If she was under 18 then she would have been entitled to NMW of just £4.05 per hour.

I am sure that after just a few days your DD was doing enough to warrant getting paid £4.05 a hour.

WhatWot · 19/12/2017 12:41

Agreed with PP. What a waste of time on the employer's behalf. I wouldn't pay for your DD's trial. And I wouldn't be impressed if her mom calls/emails. If she is old enough to do a job she is old enough to open hee mouth and explain to her manager.