WIBU to move to Ireland to give birth

[DahlTheGalah]

So that my baby would be an Irish and therefore EU citizen?

It seems farfetched to me, but I'm half serious. I am still so sad about Brexit, and being pregnant is bringing it home more as I've had the most wonderful and enriching experiences studying, living and working in Europe and am sad my baby may well not have those opportunities in the same way.

Currently, babies born on the island of Ireland to British Nationals get Irish (and therefore EU) citizenship. I am not Irish, but British currently living in Britain, and would be just making use of this law.

Has anyone else thought of doing this for the same reasons, or actually gone ahead?

How U am I being?

Why don't you just move to Ireland for good?

@senzaparole03
It’s just that saying things like that can put people off a country before they even think about it. No of course you won’t pay 40% tax at £24k it’s 21%.

@Waterdropsdown firstly i very much doubt that a complete stranger asking if a rumour she heard is correct would turn someone off an entire country (if it did, you wouldn't want that person there, surely) and secondly, no issue being corrected, but you could be less aggressive about it.

Yes, you have no idea whether OPs child will get work if it has the skills specialsubject. Had you said it was possible, rather than something that would definitely happen, your Australia and NZ example would've been relevant. You didn't, so it wasn't. That you would present this as a fact makes your remark about using it before it falls out of your ears even more unintentionally amusing.

And you can't have thought your presentation of the issue as skilled work v drug dealing in Magaluf, as though other unskilled work doesn't exist, makes you sound like anything other than a cunt.

senza The Belfast Agreement states that any child born "on the island of Ireland on or after 1 January 2005 ... is entitled to be an Irish citizen if at least one of his parents or his or her parents is ... a British citizen.

Ah, of course. Now the British parent thing all makes sense. I obviously did know about that wrt Northern Ireland, but somehow never made the leap in logic. Silly of me.

oops, that first sentence should be in quotation marks, as I was quoting senza. Sorry!

I’m sorry for having been unclear in my OP. Also not particularly clear in my mind. But I didn’t include the whole subtext in the OP because I was meaning to ask about the general issue, suspecting it is unreasonable, if perhaps understandable for some, to relocate in order to get EU citizenship rights for a child in the wake of Brexit (for those to whom EU citizenship feels important -- did not mean to get into a Brexit debate)

I need to relocate in Feb/March, before baby is born in April/May, and am looking at options. Would preferably like to stay in the U.K, as my support network is scattered in the U.K and because I assumed staying within the NHS would be easier. I was wondering about NI in particular because of the fact the baby would get EU citizenship if born there, but as this also holds true of the whole island of Ireland I did not specify in my OP.

As far as my particular situation goes, no it would not just be to go there and get the passport and leave; I'll be spending the summer in NI and am very open to the idea of staying there, because I don't have ties elsewhere and like the idea of a cold and intimidating body of water separating me from the abusive father of the baby. However, I haven't lived there before so really don't know. But the fact that I would be there a couple of months after the birth anyway was what led me to wonder about having the baby there, as I have to move somewhere to have it anyway, and to look into the citizenship question.

specialsubject
I wasn't alive back in the dark ages, and so may feel differently to you, having been born an EU citizen after the EU came into existence. It is also a fact that I would not have been able to afford my degrees or been offered my (non drug-dealing) jobs, had I been looking to do so outside the EU; from that I surmise there is no guarantee a similar thing would be possible for Britons once Britain is not in the EU, in the same way that people I know with Kenyan/US citizenships (to name two examples) have not been able to access the EU experiences I've been lucky to have.
I suppose this is the remainer version of 'get the forriners out' Not sure what you mean by this: that I am a forriner trying to get in somewhere?

In any case, moving on from my OP to my own personal situation, is it unreasonable, as a UK citizen, to consider moving to Northern Ireland before the birth of the baby, with a mind to staying there, given that I may not stay there in the end (everything is so up in the air), and given that the EU passport would be a strong factor in my mind, and that the law was designed for a different purpose?

Why? I move freely around Europe and I don't have EU citizenship (Australian). I don't see any particular value in it.

Why? I move freely around Europe and I don't have EU citizenship (Australian). I don't see any particular value in it.
Both for practicality and security, and on principal. I am glad you can move freely within the EU but I know people who can't. In fact, I moved back to the UK from another EU country I was living in purely because my ailing mother was not able to join me in that country due to not being an EU citizen herself.

Dahl thanks for clarifying! I thought it was a case that, like me, you were sort of thinking out loud! Then your plan got more 'honed' as it were.

I would say no, if it is say, Belfast, how can it be being unreasonable? It sounds like an option to me.

The whole thread got a bit confused with people talking about Brexit, Irish immigration law, the NHS and abortion amongst other things! I think it has probably helped you a great deal in making things clearer in your mind.

One thing to throw another spanner in the works that has just occurred to me, are you putting the fathers name on the BC? Because, there are a lot of laws that you will have to adhere to about access, having your baby growing up elsewhere etc etc. I know not much about it, only my situation as in my DD was born in Spain and so I can't take her out of this country because of her Spanish father.

None of that probably applies to you but maybe worth seeing if you should NOT put his name on the BC (giving him rights, even though he is abusive). You could find yourself in a sticky situation if he wanted to make life hard for you.

Are you actually married?

Someone might come along who knows more about this, as I cleary don't!

Thank you so much dan. I am sorry to hear about your difficult situation in Spain. I'm not married to the baby's father and following medical and legal advice he will not be on the birth certificate in the first instance; time will tell what happens in the long term, there.

Thousands of people work and study in Australia and nz which are not in the EU. Some get residency if they have useful skills

Yes I know that, but they have to apply for visas and I assume they also have to pay more to study than native citizens do.

"They get residency if they have useful skills" - exactly. We can't just decide we want to live in NZ or Aus because we feel like it, we can only move there if we have a qualification on their wanted list or in other limited circumstances.

At the moment anyone who is a citizen of, or has permanent residency in, the EU can live anywhere else in the EU. British-only citizens are about to lose that and find themselves pretty much confined to the UK unless they have very special skills that another country wants. That is a huge loss to mobility and opportunity. Of course that's what the Brexiteers want - they want to keep skills in here (not a bad thing on its own) but also to take away employment rights so people with skills are exploited but have no way out, either.

As for moving to NI - I see no problem with doing that. As someone else said, it's just like moving anywhere else in the UK. Ok in this case there is the issue of Irish citizenship but I might decide to move to the Orkneys because it was in the top 3 places to live in the country for quality of life. Is that not allowed, either?

I move freely around Europe and I don't have EU citizenship (Australian). I don't see any particular value in it

Ancestry visa? Some other visa eg a work permit?

Why? I move freely around Europe and I don't have EU citizenship (Australian). I don't see any particular value in it.

I'd just like to add that this is the most pointless, obtuse post on this thread.
@RestingGrinchFace Do you think immigration laws, public administration, home-office cum interior ministry affairs are designed for fun. Are visas, citizenship, nationality all just a work of fiction? Are we all essentially 'world' citizens as it were and therefore none of the above actually matters?

Vladmir yes, it was pretty dim wasn't it.

I move freely around Europe and I don't have EU citizenship (Australian). I don't see any particular value in it

Both my husband and me had very long, expensive slogs to get ourselves settled in the UK legally - I think between us we must have paid upwards of £6,000 in visas and visa extensions, leaving aside the £16,000 my UK master's cost as an international student (luckily paid for by a scholarship). For years DH (Russian) also needed visas to visit Europe - his UK visa wasn't enough. Ditto for visiting friends of his.

I'd go some way to ensure that my children can move around the world without going through the same.

It's quite something to see the entitlement of people who feel they can "shop around" for a national identity. OP have you considered that the Irish may not want you burning through their taxes and health services so your pfb can then claim to share in the birthrights of an Irish person? Honestly just who do you think you are?

I'm amazed at the number of posters who think this is somehow a viable and fair plan.

As others have mentioned the EU did not bestow upon us the first opportunity in history to leave our country. You could work, study and live all over Europe and the same will be true post-Brexit.

scatterolight Yes, I have considered this and am continuing to consider this. As stated above, I hope the UK taxes I currently pay are also shared with Northern Ireland. I would also obviously be paying taxes there once I started working again after moving there. Even so, I still feel uneasy about moving there given that getting my child an EU identity would be part of the reason for doing so.

The EU did not bestow upon us the first opportunity in history to leave our country. You could work, study and live all over Europe and the same will be true post-Brexit.
Post-EU formation, this has NOT been the case for non-EU-citizen friends and family.

If you have family connections (an Irish grandparent or parent) there's no need to go to ireland to give birth. If you register yourself in the Foreign Births Register your child will be an irish citizen as long as its born after you were registered.
I don't see the objection to going to NI to give birth though - it is one tax pot at the end of the day. I gave birth privately in the UK but considered going to the US. I reckon a smart entrepreneur would set up a good private centre to enable women to give birth in NI or Ireland and get EU citizenship for their kids.

I have EU citizenship from another country and it saddens me so much to see this happen to the UK.

@SCatter OP have you considered that the Irish may not want you burning through their taxes and health services so your pfb can then claim to share in the birthrights of an Irish person? Honestly just who do you think you are? I'm amazed at the number of posters who think this is somehow a viable and fair plan.

UK taxes and UK health services... given that Northern Ireland is in the UK...

I also don't see the objection. The main advantage would be to gain free movement in the EU - Ireland wouldn't necessarily be disadvantaged and may be advantaged.

The idea that all good things from the EU will be just the same after brexit and that everyone who wants to will be able to go and work, live, study and retire in the EU as they see fit is utter nonsense.

@scatterolight You're on very dodgy ground there. Are you advocating that each individual should stay within the confines of whatever nationality they were born into? Honestly just who do you think you are? You're skirting around a very offensive concept.

No-one thinks that in the days before the EU or EEC that no-one could travel, but if you can't see the ways in which the world is different in 2017 and going forward and why this might be important then that's your issue. It's not entitlement and I'm sure the Irish don't need you to take umbrage on their behalf.

Dahl, screw the naysayers and the bitters, and those who have read only page 1 of the thread.

Do what is best for you and your child. Remove yourselves from the close reach of your ex, protect your baby.

If you like the added advantage that living in NI would offer your child, then there is no reason to feel bad about that - it is still part of your country.

You're not answerable to anyone on here.

@scatterolight think about what you've said and take your argument to its logical conclusion. I'm frankly astonished.

Health tourism takes away precious funds from the people who need it the most. Going to another country to give birth just so that you can get your baby a passport is wrong on all levels. Your priority should not be passports - it should be finding the best maternity hospital that will give you and your baby the best care.