WIBU to move to Ireland to give birth

[DahlTheGalah]

So that my baby would be an Irish and therefore EU citizen?

It seems farfetched to me, but I'm half serious. I am still so sad about Brexit, and being pregnant is bringing it home more as I've had the most wonderful and enriching experiences studying, living and working in Europe and am sad my baby may well not have those opportunities in the same way.

Currently, babies born on the island of Ireland to British Nationals get Irish (and therefore EU) citizenship. I am not Irish, but British currently living in Britain, and would be just making use of this law.

Has anyone else thought of doing this for the same reasons, or actually gone ahead?

How U am I being?

[bumbleymummy]

“Irish medical practice doesn't necessarily prioritise your life over the unborn baby, even if the baby isn't viable.”

This is not true.

In theory your plan sounds ok but it does seem a bit extreme (and unethical - you’re basically being a health tourist)

[HermioneAndTheSniffle]

Re NI, seeing that the DUP has advised its members to actually claim the Irish citizenship after the referendum (despite seeing themselves as British and NOT Irish), I can't see the problem.

And YY to the fact that NI is in the uk and therefore you should be able to give birth where ever you want in the uk.....

[ZigZagandDustin]

Huh? You think the tax you pay could be considered shared between Northern Ireland and Ireland??? How does that work? You do realise they are different countries?

[0hT00dles]

The system over here is already stretched to the limits. I’ve experienced both systems and the Irish system is under immense pressure. The maternity hospitals that is.

With regards to the tax - NI and the ROI are two separate entities so you can’t justifiably state you’d hope your tax would be shared.

If you want the option of an Irish Passport, move to NI. Don’t put the system down south under any more pressure for reasons that may not even matter in the future. Who knows how long the EU will survive?

It is ‘free’ per se for pregnant women to be seen by hospitals etc for pregnancy related matters, but you need to be resident in the south for 12 months prior to falling pregnant. With private health insurance, you also need to have the policy for so long before you can fall pregnant and be covered. If you’re not, it can turn out very expensive and you can end up paying for everything individually. I took a trip to my GP the other day as I felt awful and wasn’t sure if I had pre-eclampsia or not (and didn’t want to sit for hours in the maternity dept!) and it cost me €55 to be told a viral infection.

You’d also have to take into account finding a job, a place to rent/live (which isn’t easy!) and so many other factors.

[HermioneAndTheSniffle]

you’re basically being a health tourist

How can you be a heath tourist in your one country????

[HermioneAndTheSniffle]

Errr... do you realise that the OP is talking about giving birth in NI (which is still in the uk isn’t it?) so that the child can get the Irish citizenship thanks to the good Friday agreement and the self determination of your citizenship???

She isn’t planning to go to Ireland itself.

[cuirderussie]

She mentioned the Republic of Ireland Hermione, which believe it or not, hasn't been part of the UK since 1921

[Elendon]

I think most people are aware of that.

The OP is not going to be a health tourist if she gives birth in Daisy Hill, Newry for example.

[bumbleymummy]

Hermione, Ireland isn’t her country. If she wanted to go to NI, then yes, that is part of the UK and is covered by the NHS.

[C8H10N4O2]

Republic of Ireland is in the same reciprocal healthcare agreement as the rest of the EU.

That said I'd assumed the OP was originally talking about NI, having mentioned island of Ireland rather than the Republic

[senzaparole03]

specialsubject Mon 18-Dec-17 08:32:05
Back in the dark ages, people travelled to the EU, worked and lived there. It will still happen. Your little darling may find it harder to get a job selling drugs in magaluf (currently easy) but if it has the skills it will get work. If it has a passport it can go on holiday. We are allowed to travel outside the EU at present.

You know, if you're going to be snide, you should at least try to be correct. The EU didn't exist 'in the dark ages'. It was the European Economic Community which the UK joined in 1973. The EU was established following the treat of europe (maastricht treaty) in 92/93.

More importantly, Schengen didn't exist until 1985, of which neither the UK nor Ireland are members.

As for your 'We are allowed to travel outside the EU at present' comment, much of this is visa-free as the EU has diplomatic status with a wide range of countries and unions, wider than that of the UK alone.

But you carry on pretending that it will all be hunky dory, and sneer at those who might have the modicum of sense to consider that it may not turn out roses.

[Dulra]

A quick read back of the thread will show you the op was talking about the Republic of Ireland not NI she said she has family in Dublin so that was where she was thinking about coming.

As an EU citizen she is free to give birth here if she wishes but as others have mentioned it is quite an overcrowded system. It does jar with me though that people have been so critical of the Irish maternity services of course it is not perfect but where is? A quick google will show you we have a lower still birth rate then the UK, lower maternal death rate in pregnancy then the UK and lower infant mortality rate then the UK so I would say it is a very safe place to have a baby (I've had 3 here and all good).
Also travelling on an Irish passport is one of the safest passports to travel on so there's that to consider too. Ethically though I don't think it is a fair thing to do but definitely a good option for British citizens.

[AstridWhite]

Back in the dark ages, people travelled to the EU, worked and lived there. It will still happen. Your little darling may find it harder to get a job selling drugs in magaluf (currently easy) but if it has the skills it will get work. If it has a passport it can go on holiday. We are allowed to travel outside the EU at present.

No, no, that's not what people want to hear at all. They want to believe that before we were in the EU no-one ever left the UK at all, ever and after Brexit we won't be allowed to leave either, we will all be locked in and fester and die in a cold and dismal wasteland behind a big old wall, like in Game of Thrones. Just us and the White Walkers while everyone in continental Europe is guaranteed wealth, happiness, unicorns and eternal life.

[whattoweartomorrow]

I am feeling quite frustrated about the number of people getting Irish passports at the moment with v spurious connections, and think if many people start doing what the OP suggests - which btw would only work if she gives birth in NI, not ROI- then conditions put in place to help a peace process in a volatile conflict affected area may be changed to avoid a loophole availed by people who want their kids to go on Erasmus, which would be spectacularly selfish.

As an aside though, I don't think maternity services are so different, at least not in Dublin. Friends who've moved home having had first child on the NHS found either compatible or better care, and certainly by the time you're approaching labour the fear of an unviable foetus being prioritised isn't an issue. I've had some engagement with NHs gynae and Irish maternity services (unfortunately ending in miscarriage) and again found no considerable difference.

But I had to be resident in Ireland 12 months before receiving free maternity care, and even within NI you may find the rules prevent you doing anything other than moving there for six months/a year - this was why they had to change the laws to allow NI women to get abortions on the English and Scottish NHS. It may be one country but it's different health systems and they don't allow women to, say, switch to a different system to have their IVF funded so imagine childbirth is somewhat similar.

[DahlTheGalah]

To be clear, I posed the question for the island of Ireland in general but I personally was looking at Northern Ireland (despite the fact I have family in ROI; and I myself do not qualify for Irish citizenship)

As Northern Ireland is part of the U.K., and I also work and pay tax in the U.K., I meant I hope the tax I pay in Britain could be considered as used U.K.-wide, and therefore shared with NI as part of the U.K; and that as HSCNI is part of the NHS, my tax would help fund that too.

But that is by the by if an issue is of over-stretched resources in maternity hospitals in NI.

The baby and I will be spending time in NI in the summer, regardless of where it is born, and so it got me thinking about going there before the birth instead of soon after.

[0hT00dles]

The OP doesn’t actually make it clear whether or not she would like to go to NI or ROI.

if she chose to go to Daisy Hill, she’d still need an address within the region. She states her own connections are in Dublin. To be honest, I think a lot more research needs to be done as we just don’t know what the future holds.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"I'm pretty sure people could live work and travel easily in Europe prior to us joining the EU. I know this as I actually did it it. "

I'm pretty sure they couldn't. You say you did it. Did you get a work permit? Are you specialised? I've worked in another EU country, but I'm not specialised enough that I'd get a work permit as a foreigner there.

[senzaparole03]

*“Irish medical practice doesn't necessarily prioritise your life over the unborn baby, even if the baby isn't viable.”

This is not true. *

Er, yes it is. In fact the constitution explicit imbues the right to life of the unborn child with special protection. Ask any constitutional lawyer in the country.

Hey, if you're unsure, just ask Savita.

(for those of you unfamiliar, Savita was haemorrhaging from a septic miscarriage at 17 weeks gestation over 7 days and requested an abortion of the unviable feotus. She was denied, and died cardiac arrest caused by sepsis.)

[LivLemler]

I assumed she meant Ireland, since she said Ireland.

It's more ethically sound to go to NI - although our health services are also at breaking point (having no government on top of the usual issues will do that), at least you'd be giving birth in the country you pay tax.

Please don't involve Ireland in your plan - ROI have enough brexit shit to deal with without also having to absorb the cost of both tourism.

Although, of course, that's also the case for NI, which is likely to be the region most affected by brexit.

All of this ignores the practicalities of traveling while heavily pregnant, accommodation, travelling home with a new born while you're recovering etc.

Basically, I can understand why you would want to do this, but it's a stupid plan. It's also galling to see all of the people scrambling for Irish citizenship who previously had no interest - although I can of course understand the reasons.

[bumbleymummy]

Senza, abortion is allowed in Ireland to save the woman’s life. The woman’s life takes priority even though they do offer protection to the life of the unborn (making abortion for non life-threatening reasons illegal) .

I find it really distasteful that Savita’s name constantly gets brought up in these discussions. You should read up on her case before you over simplify it the way you did. She was terribly neglected in hospital and died as a result.

[EssentialHummus]

I'd seriously consider doing this - the only thing that might stop me would be issues around quality of healthcare in maternity services (about which I know nothing, but other posters have suggested differences which bear investigation imo).

I have five passports. Whenever I mention this, I either get howling outrage or accusations that I'm lying or somehow cheating some system somewhere. DH has two passports. DD and any future DC will have as many as she is eligible for, because that strikes me as a relatively low-effort thing to do that may bring considerable future benefit.

[ZigZagandDustin]

Maternity services here in NI have dipped massively since I had my last two babies 2 and 3 yrs ago. I can't believe the difference this time. Cut cut cut.

[TatianaLarina]

Health services are at breaking point everywhere to be fair. She’d face the same issue on the mainland.

[LivLemler]

Health services are at breaking point everywhere to be fair. She’d face the same issue on the mainland.

Yes, but she lives there and is registered there. She wouldn't be adding unnecessary and unbudgeted strain to a system she's had no involvement with for ethically dubious reasons.

[innagazing]

Sorry but I agree with Whittling and user. It's just what our already overwhelmed maternity services need.
Cuirderussie, Whittling and User - I'm pretty certain that a few Irish women have had their babies (or abortions) on mainland Britain, so you could just view this circumstance as a quid pro quo arrangement.