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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to move to Ireland to give birth

331 replies

DahlTheGalah · 18/12/2017 08:17

So that my baby would be an Irish and therefore EU citizen?

It seems farfetched to me, but I'm half serious. I am still so sad about Brexit, and being pregnant is bringing it home more as I've had the most wonderful and enriching experiences studying, living and working in Europe and am sad my baby may well not have those opportunities in the same way.

Currently, babies born on the island of Ireland to British Nationals get Irish (and therefore EU) citizenship. I am not Irish, but British currently living in Britain, and would be just making use of this law.

Has anyone else thought of doing this for the same reasons, or actually gone ahead?

How U am I being?

OP posts:
RavingRoo · 18/12/2017 18:47

I’m in the UK. Basically if you have 2 passports (and one is EU and the other is British) my workplace expects that the EU would treat you as British until you gave up said passport.

RavingRoo · 18/12/2017 18:48

Dual citizenship puts you in a no mans land type quagmire.

LaurieMarlow · 18/12/2017 18:54

I was born in Northern Ireland and my understanding is that I can hold both and brandish whichever I like at will. Not that I've ever tried that mind you. I currently have an Irish passport and see no reason right now to waste money on a British one (though I've had one in the past).

IsaSchmisa · 18/12/2017 18:54

Ok. Well the point about dual nationals not being treated as EU citizens within the UK for free movement purposes. once they become British was true until recently in the UK, because it was Home Office policy. Though they lost a case on this point a few weeks ago.

curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2017-11/cp170121en.pdf

However, OP is concerned about getting free movement rights in the EU for her child if the UK leaves. So UK policy isn't going to be relevant, it'll be about how the other member states treat dual nationals of the UK and an EU member state. Also, British law doesn't treat dual British and Irish citizens less favourably within the UK generally than it treats people who are solely British citizens. And couldn't really, as that would be a good way to restart the Troubles.

IsaSchmisa · 18/12/2017 18:56

You can indeed Laurie. Doesn't matter that you don't have a British passport either, doesn't make you any more or less British. You're allowed to choose not to be British if you want, but the British government are obliged to give you all the rights of British citizenship should you assert them, unless and until you formally renounce. It's your choice not theirs!

HermioneAndTheSniffle · 18/12/2017 19:03

Dual citizenship puts you in a no mans land type quagmire.
???
What normally happens is that you are treated as Brit in the uk and as whatever citizenship you have in that country.
In other countries, I assume it depends what sort of passport you use (hence why it would be easier to travel to Australia with a British passport than one, form let’s say Turkey)

I have never ever heard anything about a country forcing you to drop your other citizenship. Not even the American anymore (they use to ask you to choose when you reached 18yo)

LaurieMarlow · 18/12/2017 19:05

My understanding (and correct me if i'm wrong) is that I can have both passports at the same time and use a British one if I'm in UK or travelling to somewhere like Canada and then bust out the Irish one for Europe.

To be honest, an Irish passport is a pretty good one to have for lots of countries. Most people are pretty favorable towards the Irish (if only because we've never been powerful enough to piss people off on the world stage).

danTDM · 18/12/2017 19:11

It's true, in a list of best passports to have that I saw recently, Ireland was in the top 3 for sure.

British was pretty high up too. Irish definitely better though.

IsaSchmisa · 18/12/2017 19:12

Yes that's also correct.

My NI relatives who use both describe it as using the Irish one to try and avoid getting into trouble in the first place and the British one because, if the shit does hit the fan, you want to be able to call on the SAS!

Rather dry humour but I see their point.

LaurieMarlow · 18/12/2017 19:14

Yes, that's it entirely Isa Grin

bananafish81 · 18/12/2017 19:30

Dual citizenship puts you in a no mans land type quagmire.

Why? I work with many many people with dual nationality. I have many friends with dual nationality. It has only opened up opportunities for them, rather than limited them

My dual nationality gives me options - I continue to be British in the UK, as a British national who is domiciled here. I can travel on my German passport when I sort the bugger out and post brexit it will offer me FOM rights that are likely to be stripped from me as a British citizen

I believe the US dual nationals have to file a tax return in the US even though they live overseas, but none consider this a significant hardship

Could you explain more about your comment - what precisely do you mean by no man's land? I'm baffled

senzaparole03 · 18/12/2017 20:09

I’m in the UK. Basically if you have 2 passports (and one is EU and the other is British) my workplace expects that the EU would treat you as British until you gave up said passport.

Whoever told you that tosh is full of shite.
Your workplace is either making things up, or getting very, very dodgy advice!

senzaparole03 · 18/12/2017 20:13

if the shit does hit the fan, you want to be able to call on the SAS!

If the shit hits the fan, then currently any EU citizen can approach the embassy of any EU country for consular assistance.

Depending on the context, the French or German embassy might be better than the British if it's all kicking off.

curryforbreakfast · 18/12/2017 20:14

And yes, a baby born to a British citizen in either NI or ROI will be entitled to Irish citizenship at birth. This is pretty basic stuff

We know that. But a baby born to a British person in IRELAND, who has lived there for 5 minutes will not be. That's also pretty basic stuff.

IsaSchmisa · 18/12/2017 20:24

Yes they will.

www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/irish_citizenship/irish_citizenship_through_birth_or_descent.html

See the section on foreign national parents. A child born on the island of Ireland on or after 01/01/05 is entitled to Irish citizenship if they have a British parent. There isn't any requirement to have lived in the country for a certain period, I suppose the rationale for that is that British citizens have the right of permanent residence on arrival. Same as Irish citizens in the UK.

Primamadonna · 18/12/2017 20:27

OP, I moved back to NI as a single parent and the current economic situation here isn't great in some respects - I have found it difficult to get work PT but I'm sure you have thought of this. I would definitely organise employment possibilities asap.
The passport thing is a bit of moot point, surely to get away from your ex would be the priority with you and your child
Wish you best of luck.

IsaSchmisa · 18/12/2017 20:40

I'd be interested to know which sector you work in RavingRoo, if it's not too outing. If it's for the Home Office or something where the rights of EU Nationals are relevant, I can sort of see where you got the idea that dual nationality doesn't make any difference. Because it was true from 2012 until quite recently that when EU nationals took British citizenship, they were only considered to be British with regards to sponsoring non-EU family members. They weren't in a no man's land though!

If your employer isn't anything like that, I'm honestly bemused as to how they got that idea.

Alasdair53 · 19/12/2017 17:25

My son was born in the Republic of Ireland 23 years ago and has dual nationality.We registered his birth with Dublin registrars for an Irish birth certificate and went to the Embassy to register him for a UK one.

chattykathyblue100 · 19/12/2017 17:33

I think you have every right to go to NI to have the baby. You pay your taxes to the UK and NI are currently greatly benefiting being part of the UK. £10 billion as the latest bribe. I'm speaking as an Irish Citizen and I say go for it.

Tuppencew0rth · 19/12/2017 17:33

I get where you’re coming from. I’m Irish living in the UK and clutching to my Irish passport.... and the two Irish passports I got for my children even though one was born in the UK...

Asides from passports Ireland provides a far better maternity service even in its bursting at the seams capacity ... I love the nhs but for having babies, major no.

One baby born in Holles st, one in Addenbrookes.

You could find an Irish man and marry him (or a woman) for the passport? Would that be another option Grin

Scarriff · 19/12/2017 17:37

Like others I find this question irritating. You live in the UK and your pregnant. Congratulations. Maybe its your hormones talking, but your are contemplating moving yourself to another country for the birth of your baby, just in case the Brexit negotiations might mean that in twenty years time, your baby might not be able to access some opportunities you had in your day. See all the ifs and buts here? Here are some questions for you.

Do you love Ireland? Is it a place you would think of living working and and paying taxes? Do you know that each visit to your GP there will cost you 60 euro? That the medical care is quite different to the UK and much more like US style? that its quite a different country in many ways?

Blame your fears on your hormones. YABU in my view. .

Nothomealone · 19/12/2017 17:50

If moving to NI is practical for you then I would, I suspect for most people it would be impractical. If it isn't then go for it, why wouldn't you give your DC as many life options as possible.

Confusedbeetle · 19/12/2017 17:52

There was life before the EU, we travelled , studied, worked and traded. The world is not coming to an end. We will just shake off a bureaucracy we never voted for. We signed up to a trade agreement. that was why it was called the common market. I empathise with remainers but people under 40 are worrying for many reasons, and have no experience of life before the EU. Please dont risk the safe delivery of your precious child for all sorts of unknowns. Britain will not grind to a halt and many european projects will continue. Put things into perspective. This is a decent country and your British child will be just fine.

Original poster
DahlTheGalah · 19/12/2017 17:56

Scarriff I was stupidly imprecise in my OP, and inaccurate in my OP title.

Question was meant to be about the island of Ireland, though for me specifically about Northern Ireland (the point being to stay in the same country).

But as it happens, after my initial summer staying with someone in NI after the birth of the baby in spring, I am open to going anywhere really: staying in NI, or indeed moving to ROI (where I have spent several months and where I have family). I'll be paying taxes etc wherever I end up going.

I completely get that it is irritating, though.

OP posts:
KnowItNo · 19/12/2017 17:56

I am in France. Was planning to go back to the UK for a bit but now staying put and applying for French passport in order to have dual UK/French nationality for me and any future DC.

If you can get dual UK/EU nationality, why would you not?

Indeed, I even know someone who voted Leave and has applied for an Irish passport on the back of having an Irish grandfather Hmm