To think my children are having a shit childhood and not know what to do about it

[Lunaluce]

After another stress-filled weekend I'm sitting feeling a failure again and don't know what to do.

Dc are 10 & 8 yr old boys and I am divorced. The think I struggle with so much is the fact that they are so different and argue so bloody much. Every weekend I negotiate a minefield of squabbles and bickering until I finally flip at the end and a horrible shout ensues leaving us all in tears.

They never want to do the same thing. I read threads on here about people playing board games and snuggling watching films etc and wonder why there's no harmony like that in my house. Everything is a tortured argument about whose turn it is to choose, it's not fair etc etc and I hear myself snapping, saying negative things to them and feel so awful but it all makes me feel so shit it's so hard to sound positive and be patient. They did play Monopoly tonight but it ended in tears as usual - I don't know why we bother. National Trust place was shit really as they kept trying to make each other laugh making fart noises in the café and they didn't want to run about and let off steam which I think they need.

Bloody screens are a nightmare - it seems to be all ds2 wants to do and ds1 is writing a politics book so seems unfair to limit him, but 'it's not fair!' yet all sd2 wants to do is watch videos of other people doing stuff he won't bloody do!

I work f/t in a very stressful job and I honestly think I'm taking it out on them which is awful - I don't snap at people at work and cry randomly like I do at home and that's awful. But at weekends I feel I don't stop. I have low standards and have done no real cooking this weekend yet I've barely sat down either and there's so much I haven't done.

They spend Mondays at their dad's and a small bit of weekend time too and he does nothing with them. Ds1 complains of being bored there (to me, wouldn't to dad) and ds2 loves it as there's no limits on screen time. I think that's why he never wants to do a lot at home - it's like he's forgotten how to play and when he does do other stuff it's annoying shit like get every paint pot out, pour out a lake of it, paint a tiny lego doll, then leave it all or be nagged by me to clean it up after 5 minutes of 'craft'. I feel ex doesn't interact with them an awful lot, and if I try to put routines etc in place to adjust their behaviour it all goes to shit because of the time they spend there. But I can't cut it back because I need to work - he gives me nothing and has very limited earning potential.

I just don't know what to do. Their childhoods are nearly over and I'm fucking it up. All they'll remember is me shouting and none of the stress is their fault. Their dad is shit and there's nothing I can do about that either. It's a pointless post anyway but it did feel good to vent...

I love How to talk but possibly even trying to get them to come up with a plan is putting too many demands on them. I would just concentrate on everyone trying to relax and destress and that starts with you worrying less/looking after yourself. There will also be other mums out there who also work FT and long to have a playdate at weekends for their kid/s, maybe in the Spring that will be something that seems more possible/feasible to organise, even if it is just mentioning you will be in x place outside at x time. We all need other supportive parents around, most of my friends from school did work FT, and sometimes it would be a while before we could meet in any form, but it made a difference having them in the background, even just to share experiences of what made us scream!

You’re not fucking up their childhoods. It all sounds so normal.

I agree with discussing plans before the weekend and letting them take turns in deciding what to do.
Come up with a list of active things they’d like to do together.
Do they like kicking a ball in the park? Going on bikes? Swimming?
I think it’s lovely that your dd wants to chat to you about different things.
Have a list like this ready when he next asks
www.buzzle.com/articles/debate-topics-for-kids.html

OP we all just do our best. We often struggle through one day to the next. I catch myself screaming at mine often but that's due to their naughty behaviours and my stress levels.

The problem as I see it is that you have a fixed idea of what a happy family/happy childhood is. Maybe it isn't all about getting on with your brother and liking the same things. Maybe they are perfectly happy with their differences because they don't have any expectation or idea that they should agree more. Why should they? They are brothers and completely different and that will always be their reality. It is OK.

When you are sufficiently stressed out by the tension caused by the difference between the reality in front of you and your belief that it should be different, you explode. It really isn't necessary - the problem is with your expectations, not with them.

Mine are a not older and I do wonder if we just need to change the activities to something more grown up as they swing between being kids and being more grown up

Could Dad chanhe the days slightly to break up the routine a bit?

Can you research stud tonso locally and get them into a sports activity or St Johns ambulance scouts etc to give you some time. Some cinemas run repeats over the weekend for pennies

Try card games rather than board games

Play in the Xbox with them - can't beat them then join them!!

Can you all get together over mealtime and talk about each others' days? Regardless of how shit a day we've had, arguments and shouting etc, we always make sure we have the evening meal together (and lunch at the weekend) and try to get along and have a chat. I never had this as a child so felt it was important for my own family.

We also try to go for some walks together fairly regularly - we are trying to 'bag' all of the highest hills in our county at the moment, makes it a bit of a personal challenge for the children (although there's usually some moaning or bickering from one or more children), and has the added bonus of fresh air and exercise. You can add in some Geocaching for a bit more of an incentive too if needed.

Family games that we've found the least argumentative are:
Dobble
Carcassonne
Charades
Win it in a Minute (this is a home made game/challenge - Google it!)

I only let the kids have their tablets for an hour on a weekend morning and on long car journeys. Any more than that and they get immensely grumpy and irritable. They are allowed to watch a limited amount of TV/DVDs but if there's any arguing over what they're going to watch, the TV gets switched off and they have to find something else to do. Anyone mentions the words "I'm bored" and I find them a job to do.

I also ask them to help out with some of the chores. Youngest does the water bottles and empties the cutlery from the dishwasher, middle one feeds the cat and loads the breakfast things, eldest empties the rest of the dishwasher. They also have to help out by putting away their own clean laundry at the weekend. Yours are certainly old enough to be pitching in with the chores (mine are 5, 7, 9 years old) and it would reduce the workload on you as a result.

Why don't you sit down and make a list of some activities you'd all like to try at the weekends? Take it in turns to try out something new and if there's something you find that you all enjoy then that's fab, if not, you might find something each of the boys likes and you can offload them for a bit and do something you'd like to do, even if that's just a cup of tea and a good book for half an hour!

Remember, parenting is hard work - you're not doing a shit job. I shout at the kids and make them cry but I do always try and apologise to them afterwards once we've all calmed down. It's not great though :(

What I did find worked for quite a long time (and I must do it again), is making a note each day of how many times each person in the family shouted at someone else (adults and children). It made me really think about whether to shout or not and for almost 2 months I didn't shout at all. I'm not sure why I stopped but I must start it again as I think it was good for all of us.

Give yourself a break. You can't make everything 'perfect and you can't change what goes on at their dad's. Try different sorts of outings, short trips (swimming pool?) and take the buggers home the second they start to play up. If they argue walk out of the room and leave them to it. Let them come looking for you. Get them into clubs a couple of nights a week and make an effort to get to know other parents so you can help each other out with lifts etc. They are probably having a perfectly happy time anyway.

I have 8 & 10 yo DSs. Screen time makes thems stressed out and awful to each other. Everything is better if we go for a walk and they can get my full attention.

Also a single parent, and it's all I can do to get them to even be in the same room at the same time, other than meal times. Mine squabble, especially the the middle two - 11 and 8. They were very close until this year and now one is always annoyed with the other. The only time they get on is when they're on the xbox.
Yet they seem to think they have fun, they don't like being apart for long so the fighting doesn't affect them as much as it does me. Eldest is 14 and prefers to do his own thing. I just leave them to it. They're just trying to develop their own personalities.

Don't give yourself a hard time op! I'm a lone parent as well, it's absolutely knackering and totally overwhelming at times. Be kind to yourself

I am 1 of 5 children and if you ask my mum she would tell you that we fought constantly. She says she could always tell when the children s programmes finished on TV because she would hear WWIII break out.

However, we all think our childhood was brilliant and spend a lot of time as adults laughing about the stupid arguments and dumb stuff we got up to.

There is a really good Ted Talk here about the pressure we put on ourselves to make our kids happy which I found really interesting

www.ted.com/talks/jennifer_senior_for_parents_happiness_is_a_very_high_bar?utm_campaign=tedspread--a&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=tedcomshare

You need to give them meaningful work to do around the house. They will fight this, but you need to make them do it.

They are old enough to put on a load of laundry and hang it up, then put away their own.
They could also learn some cooking - pasta dishes, pizza, rice dishes, and the cleaning up afterwards are all fine for 8 and 10 yos to attempt.

Other chores:
Vacuuming
Dusting
Mopping
Cleaning windows
Loading and emptying the dishwasher, alternating elements daily

They could earn weekend screen time after a morning keeping house.

Children can't really cope with the transition from the bubble of screen time to the reality of family interaction. You can manage this by having a cooling down period after screen time, in a particular place, music to play...

Boys need to feel useful and they are just the right age to enjoy the feeling that they are part of a team.

Can you afford a sport for each of them? Martial arts can help channel aggression.

As they get older they will need an outlet for energy, and as mentioned, boys generally love to be part of a team. Sports are really useful...

Are they appealing to you to referee their squabbles? If yes, tell them they are both bright and reasonable boys and they can figure out what is fair themselves - you are not interested.

It's not your job to provide entertainment for them that you hope they will enjoy. Challenge them, and establish yourself as the authority figure who gives feedback on their efforts. (Be encouraging).

So many helpful ideas and supportive words!

Regarding sport, ds1 is cricket mad and plays for a local team but obviously out of season now. He does other stuff through school but not at weekends. DS2 isn't sporty but does a Saturday dance class. They did go through a stage of playing football together but have now stopped. I don't try to force them to play, but ds1 is always on at ds2 to play with him and ds2 seems to get A kick out of refusing! They seem to crave each other's company but don't often fill the time with anything other than whining/fighting!

Neither will play in their own rooms and spend about 80% of their time in which ever room I'm in1, despite this being quite a big house with options. Ds2 wants MLP songs blasting out at all times for him to sing to, ds1 hates them etc. I can't even play music, as if I try it turns into 'song turns' with them just waiting for each other's turn and not really doing anything. If I tell them off, they continue to follow me! When I pick up from dad's he's sitting alone watching tv and they're upstairs. That NEVER happens here.

They do some chores, but I'm always having to nag and I do think it's because they don't do anything at dad's. Ds2 had a good old whine yesterday as I asked him to carry an empty box out to the car for the tip and ds1 hadn't carried anything! (there wasn't anything else that needed taking.) Sigh.

You sound like you are doing a good job and I think we all worry at times. My 3 are smaller and I am concerned too.

As to board games, there are some where you have to work together or everyone loses. We have been playing one called Forbidden Desert where you have to find all the parts of your crashed air ship before you die of dehydration. And there's Pandemic which I have never played but have heard good things about.

Second the How to Talk recommendation. They wrote another book about sibling rivalry which I use a lot. Might be worth a look.

Turn off the Internet and have set times

OP my boys are 11 and 9, so I am one year ahead of you. Everything you mention seems so familiar - and normal! I have got loads of good ideas from this thread for my own house, so thanks for posting.

One thing I would like to add is that I limit screen time and it comes with qualifying factors! It's a relatively recent thing and of course met with much opposition initially. They get up to 2 hours a day after school on Friday, and on weekends. However they MUST spend the corresponding amount of time outside or doing chores to earn the time, so 1 hour at park plus 1 hour of chores = 2 hours of screen. Not on Fridays of course as they have been at school. So if they can't be arsed to play outside they don't get screens. In the first 15 mins I get lots of questions as to how long it has been, then inevitably they get caught up in some game. In cold and rainy weather it is hard as we have to go with them to a trampoline park or indoor swimming or just walk in the rain but gets us out of the house.

My eldest son loves coding so he also gets 30 mins after school when homework and chores are done. I watch what he is doing (less so now he has proven himself) to make sure he is not abusing the privilege.

And re monopoly, my mum is mid 60s and she remembers playing when she was a teenager with her siblings and it always ended with someone throwing the board!!

We also have lots of turns with things - down to who gets the comfy sofa, to who gets in the shower first. So tedious but once they know the rules they can operate within...

Good luck, you are doing an amazing job!

Giggling about farts in the cafe sounds pretty perfect.

Sounds like they are having a great childhood but you need a break.

I have 2 step children and 2 of my own and they all squabble and bang on about fairness and taking turns and play games that end in tears... but they miss each other like anything when they aren’t together!! I think we as adults find children’s squabbling much more traumatic than they do.

Keep doing what you’re doing, but try and find a time to do something for yourself

It all sounds pretty normal to me too. Mine argue too if they are left to their own devices. The only way I have found that works is to keep them as busy as possible. They both have an activity they are very involved in and it happens to be different which means they aren’t competing directly. Do they have different interests op?

We like board games, but it’s not always harmonious! They argue if they spend too long together which I think is normal.

💐 I just wanted to say it's hard work being a single parent, no down time, no one to take over when they are driving you up the wall and you need 5 minutes to calm down. I have been where you are, mine are older now and still arguing but not as frequent.. You are not spoiling there childhood. I always treasured those rare days of calm when we went out, enjoyed ourselves with no dramas and everyone came back smiling. I have no advice just wanted to add to those reassuring you it's normal to feel how you do.

Not sure but it sounds like you are doing all of the chores? Can you give them jobs each to do -your eldest can do lots at 10. They sound like normal boys but is not teach them to sit around while you wait on them and try to amuse them. They are going to be less fractious if they have done their bit in the house each.

Most children argue and bicker it is completely normal, although it drives me insane as well as it can ruin every day out.

I have a fine system in place for any child that start the rows just for kicks, so they are fined if they pick a fight. It happens immediately the minute they start, and I don't given second chances. I warn them when it starts brewing or before a day out, I tell them what is expected and what will happen if they start an argument deliberately and for no reason, just as a blood sport for entertainment. This has helped stem some of the arguing caused for no reason, although it hasn't turned my life into a harmonious sea of joy, it has put an end to some of the bored pick a fight behaviour.

An argument over a toy or item is different and is usually settled amicably and I try to leave them to it when it is simply a disagreement of views.

I have given up with NT types of days and now craft days at home, they will be bored and it will not be enriching in the least.
I have swapped them for trampoline parks (no chance to argue there) bike rides (ditto), skate parks swimming esp ones with flutes and slides, theatre where everyone HAS to be quiet, and separate play dates. I can see you have mentioned that they don't have many friends outside school, so can you not sign them up to a few clubs individually so they can make some new friends? And enjoy some time away from the family unit?

I also think a meeting your ex dh is needed to outline to him the issues and see if he can do more to enhance their life? It should not all be down to you. I would agree that once a fortnight so every other visit he organises something fun and interesting for them.

You are doing a great job, and you are managing so well, so just remember this stage isn't easy for anyone, but it is just a stage and will pass. You need to adapt your days out to their new needs now they are older. Also when you are tired keep it easy - indoor play areas and things you can actually sit down for. When you have more energy in the spring and summer you can arrange more energetic days out.

This sounds so familiar luna, another lp here and dc's about the same age. Mine are only bearable if we have a big day out, sadly I don't have a bottomless bank account. We went away this weekend, no fights, but they were kicking each other in the head within 30 mins arriving home.

Agree with the comments about chores in house, they need to be busy helping you. You are their mother, and it is their home. Investing time in teaching them how to do things in the house and be capable, and every day they are 4 or so things to do will keep them busy and away from screens.

Do they go to after school club? How about hiring a nanny instead? The nanny could get them started on any homework and start preparing dinner for the 3 of you. A cleaner for a couple of hours per week and online food shop, full of easy meal components. I have introduced all of those things and my life is easier than it used to be (although our nanny doesn't do the above and I haven't asked her to tbh).
With DS1 we put limits on when his devices were able to access the wifi (your isp could help with this); it saved arguments about it, after the initial one :-)
My life is 'easier' than yours though, I have a dh & work 30 hours. I was a single mum with ds1 and I remember the guilt i felt at not having enough hours (and working FT). Their childhood is nowhere near over though. DS1 is 20 now & still living in the family home, part of family life & will be for a while yet, I think.