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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Why do some people feel the need to describe themselves as ‘middle class’?

432 replies

lottieandmia22 · 17/12/2017 21:56

I met a man who said

‘I am incredibly lucky. I’m a middle class, white, straight male which puts me at an advantage’

Frankly, this made my teeth itch. I thought ‘what a tosser’

Why do people feel the need to do this? I couldn’t care less which class I am.

OP posts:
CautionTape · 21/12/2017 14:33

What is the definitive 'dictionary definition' that ends all discussion?

Historians, sociologists, economists all use different definitions.

Class like race evolves over time.

LaurieMarlow · 21/12/2017 14:42

There is no dictionary definition of class. There is social stratification for polling and such like, but I don't think anyone sees that as the same thing.

Bluntness100 · 21/12/2017 14:50

Of course there is a dictionary definition. Look it up.

roundaboutthetown · 21/12/2017 16:29

The Cambridge dictionary defines middle class as :

"a social group that consists of well-educated people, such as doctors, lawyers, and teachers, who have good jobs and are neither very rich nor very poor:
"The upper middle class tend to go into business or the professions, becoming, for example, lawyers, doctors, or accountants."

It defines class as: "a group of people within society who have the same economic and social position."

The upper middle classes traditionally sought out professions which gave them status and respect within society by virtue of their profession. They generally had careers which required them to work closely with the upper classes and be in a position where they had to be deemed trustworthy, because they were responsible for maintaining the health and wealth of their "betters," without getting to join them. They had skills difficult to gain and maintain, making them of higher status than the working classes, who couldn't afford to gain them in the first place - and wealthier. They could only maintain their position if they maintained their reputation as clever, trustworthy and discreet, so it was in their interest to develop their own set of customs and behaviours to mark themselves out.

Obviously, social class structures have changed a lot over the years, but some of the vestiges of the old ideas remain, whether people like it or not. People still respond, like Pavlov's dog, to some of the signifiers developed by the middle classes to identify themselves, even if the person affecting them is not technically middle class.

billysboy · 21/12/2017 16:35

dear oh dear

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 20:15

"But this concept of obsessively labelling yourself working or middle class then slagging Off the class you're not seems bonkers to me. I still can't understand why people do it."

To be honest, I'm equally baffled by people who claim not to have a class at all. Looks like they're silly enough to have swallowed John Major's "classless society" idea. Working and lower middle class people losing their class consciousness and voting against their own interests is a right wing dream.

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 22/12/2017 01:12

Working and lower middle class people losing their class consciousness and voting against their own interests is a right wing dream.

Isn't it just Sad

PollyPelargonium52 · 23/12/2017 06:10

It is the UK that overdefines class something to do with being ex Commonwealth and having had a history of land ownership owned by the gentry. Although we are aware of class issues it can cause division by overanalysing this.

I grew up with a middle class mum and a working class dad and to be honest that was most confusing. To this day and especially now I am a parent I still overanalyse these issues at times.

makeourfuture · 23/12/2017 06:40

Corn Laws

falange · 23/12/2017 06:41

I don't understand what middle class is. Everything I've read so far just makes me think that if you work, you're working class.

ButchyRestingFace · 23/12/2017 07:05

I don't understand what middle class is. Everything I've read so far just makes me think that if you work, you're working class

For me middle class is people who eat humus, couscous and olives.

And claim to enjoy them.

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 07:15

“Everything I've read so far just makes me think that if you work, you're working class.”

Does that include, for example, the prime minister?

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 07:18

“For me middle class is people who eat humus, couscous and olives.

And claim to enjoy them.”

Not quite. Middle class people actually do enjoy them. Grin. It’s the aspirational working class Hyacinth Bucket types that claim to..........

falange · 23/12/2017 07:22

Bertrand Does that include, for example, the prime minister?

Yes. Why wouldn't it?

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2017 07:26

Because, like it or not, that’s not how British society works. Either now or historically.

derxa · 23/12/2017 07:29

It’s the aspirational working class Hyacinth Bucket types that claim to
I actually admire Hyancinth. You can always depend on her when a family crisis arises. I can't imagine she serves humus, couscous or olives at her candlelit suppers. She's more of a quiche and pavlova woman. Wink

GertieMotherwell · 23/12/2017 07:34

I think his comment is true

GertieMotherwell · 23/12/2017 07:47

This is interesting

steff13 · 23/12/2017 08:47

We have classes in the US, but they're based pretty much solely on income. Not whether you like hummus, couscous, and olives (all delicious, as far as I'm concerned). For the record, I'm upper middle by US standards, and I'm guessing I'd be middle class by UK standards.

OP, I think you read this guy wrong; he wasn't looking down on people, he was acknowledging his privilege. That's a good thing in my book.

Gwenhwyfar · 23/12/2017 09:59

steff13 - yes, it's interesting that class in the US is almost the same as income groups, but from observation from very far away, I do think there are some 'class' issues as well. When I was watching Revenge they showed the difference between the main character before she became rich. It was more than just money, her mannerisms also changed when she came into money as if she'd gone to finishing classes or something.
Also, aren't there also some 'old' privileged families whose high social status is a bit more than just money. The Kennedys for example. I remember in Mad Men there was a young man that the management didn't want to upset because he came from an upper class family. I'm sure he was rich as well, but it seemed to be a bit more than that.

Gwenhwyfar · 23/12/2017 10:00

"I grew up with a middle class mum and a working class dad and to be honest that was most confusing. To this day and especially now I am a parent I still overanalyse these issues at times."

Tell us more, sounds interesting.

derxa · 23/12/2017 10:06

According to Legally Blonde the class system in the US is alive and well.
Grin

Gwenhwyfar · 23/12/2017 10:08

"Is accent really that strongly defined along class lines? Or do people perceive those who lack a strong accent as middle class and those who have one as working class, rather than them actually being MC/WC?"

Since we can define class in our own way, to some extent. Bluntness can't accept that, but I have my own idea of what makes a certain class and I'm entitled to keep that idea, so yes, you can decide to place someone in a class based on their accent.
Most middle class people have regional accents, outside of the home counties so you're upper middle or upper class if you speak RP and are not from the home counties, by my definition. Someone can disagree with that, but I can still have my opinion.

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2017 18:44

My dad came from a working class family and mum from a middle class family (born in an era when class distinctions were quite apparent and generally agreed!). I didn't find it confusing, although mum's family weren't interested in racing pigeons, the football pools, or drinking sugary tea from a saucer Grin. Dad and my mother's mother enjoyed arguing with each other about politics.

Gwenhwyfar · 23/12/2017 19:18

"drinking sugary tea from a saucer grin."

Drinking from the saucer? Really? Or do you just mean using a cup and saucer?