Page 15 | Why do some people feel the need to describe themselves as ‘middle class’?

HuskyMcClusky · 20/12/2017 23:29

Saying they don't is akin to the noble savage/why can't we just be like the simple people bullshit.

What?! 🤣 I’m talking about New Zealand, Canada, Australia, to name three.

I grew up in one of these countries, and also spent 6 years in the UK as an adult. People here do not define themselves as belonging to named classes. There is no working, middle and upper class. Or A, B and C class, or whatever you want to call it. People do not think or talk about which class they’re belong to.

I love this delusion that some British people cling to that ‘All countries have classes, they just don’t acknowledge them’. No. It’s been written about extensively by people more knowledgeable than me: these countries do not have a class system in the same way you do.

JoJoSM2 · 20/12/2017 23:34

MrsDoyle, exactly what Husky says. People will have different levels of education, wealth, different tastes in stuff but they don't get labelled. You don't get publications such as Twatler or pay a 300% premium for a supposedly MC postcode.

roundaboutthetown · 20/12/2017 23:51

Huh. You still get elite families in Australia which have generations of privilege behind them. And reassuringly expensive private schools which generations of the same families like to send their children to. Generations worth of lawyers, etc. Australia has more of a class system than it likes to admit - oarticularly in NSW and Victoria...

roundaboutthetown · 20/12/2017 23:56

I've also seen quite a bit of Australian comedy which pokes fun at its underclass.

holidayparkquestion · 20/12/2017 23:58

Oh there so is in Australian. A lot of jokes at the expense of Bogans. And those in professional jobs and kids in private school ref, whole culture of superiority (to the English I particular ;) )

Teddy1970 · 21/12/2017 00:17

I've always considered class to be a state of mind, I've met arrogant wankers who think because they earn a fortune it puts them in to a higher class, (it doesn't) I've also met some people who are as poor as a church mouse but who have impeccable manners and are very refined, so I suppose I judge class on not who they are and what they earn, but how they behave and treat others, but that's just me though.

MrsDoyleFallingOutTheWindow · 21/12/2017 00:32

Yeah unfortunately life doesn't treat people better just because they have good manners. Where they come from counts. And that is not the same whether they are a tin hut dweller in the outback or a social housing tenant in the UK.

Plus, please hold me upright while I ponder the irony of a person giving forth about the classlessness of the colonies. You do realise there are people there of non European descent don't you? Yes, jolly good.

malificent7 · 21/12/2017 00:43

The middle class thing is hilarious...overly anxious helicopter patent types who obsess about mortgages, humous, private schools...and worry about what class they are part of navel gazing, guardian reading bores
i say this as a middle class person with less cash than maby working class

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 00:46

"What?! 🤣 I’m talking about New Zealand, Canada, Australia, to name three.

I grew up in one of these countries, and also spent 6 years in the UK as an adult. People here do not define themselves as belonging to named classes. There is no working, middle and upper class. Or A, B and C class, or whatever you want to call it. People do not think or talk about which class they’re belong to. "

Read The Slap a book about Australia, dramatised here. Has quite a lot about the Australian class system (as well as other issues). Look up the word bogan and tell me there's no class awareness in Australia. Read what Germaine Greer has to say on the subject.

MotherofaSurvivor · 21/12/2017 00:47

Yeah I got unreasonably furious when I saw someone post on a thread about 'Classes' by saying "Middle Class here...."

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 00:48

"I've always considered class to be a state of mind, I've met arrogant wankers who think because they earn a fortune it puts them in to a higher class, (it doesn't) I've also met some people who are as poor as a church mouse but who have impeccable manners and are very refined, so I suppose I judge class on not who they are and what they earn, but how they behave and treat others, but that's just me though."

So you judge people according to their class, but you think that's OK because it's your definition of class.

I am aware of class and believe it exists, but I don't think any class is better than another.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 00:49

"Yeah I got unreasonably furious when I saw someone post on a thread about 'Classes' by saying "Middle Class here....""

Why? Why not be honest?
I can't stand obviously middle class people who pretend to be working class or even call themselves poor e.g. "I'm only a poor lecturer". I find that really insulting to anyone who earns less than them.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 00:51

"I love this delusion that some British people cling to that ‘All countries have classes, they just don’t acknowledge them’. No. It’s been written about extensively by people more knowledgeable than me: these countries do not have a class system in the same way you do."

I'm Welsh and we don't have quite the same obsession as the English, but there are classes in all industrialised countries. When I lived on the continent, I could tell a person's class after listening to under 5 minutes of conversation.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 00:53

"In Scotland ime the upper classes have no accent"

There's no such thing as no accent. Do you mean that they have English accents or that they speak in RP?

MotherofaSurvivor · 21/12/2017 00:59

Excuse me OP, but ANYONE of ANY 'class' can be abusive!!!!!!! (I should know)

Just one example - Mel B from Spice Girls experienced severe Domestic Violence in her last marriage. They're both multi-millionaires.

You are making yourself sound terribly judgemental! I prefer the sound of your date to you quite frankly!!!!

MotherofaSurvivor · 21/12/2017 01:02

Gwen I know what the PP means. Just a standard British accent without the local connotation. A lot of TV presenters have non-specific 'British' accents. I do, mostly.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 01:08

"Gwen I know what the PP means. Just a standard British accent without the local connotation. A lot of TV presenters have non-specific 'British' accents. I do, mostly."

Then you probably speak RP or a soft RP. There's no such thing as no accent. It's an important point.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/12/2017 01:09

"‘I am incredibly lucky. I’m a middle class, white, straight male which puts me at an advantage’

Frankly, this made my teeth itch. I thought ‘what a tosser’"

Why is he a tosser for telling the truth. He's not bragging, he's acknowledging that life hasn't been difficult for him. He sounds quite self-aware, possibly also someone who reads a lot on these issues or is interested in sociology or politics. There's been a lot about "checking your privilege" lately and it sounds like he's doing that.

catwoozle · 21/12/2017 01:20

Exactly, gwen. The OP came across as rather obtuse on the point, I thought.

coconuttella · 21/12/2017 07:15

I’m not sure where people get the idea that the UK is obsessed by class... I really don’t think it is. Most people just get on with their lives without getting hung up on labels, and are unaware of how they fit in the A, B, C etc classification mentioned earlier.

All class is these days is a label that some like to use as a form of ‘tribal’ identity.

It makes very little sense beyond that as there is no clear defining features for each with the exception of accent. Even education is no longer a defining feature with people identifying as WC on here with professional quals, and MC people with a smattering of GCSEs.

roundaboutthetown · 21/12/2017 07:26

Some people really don't like to have to admit they were born luckier than others, do they? Why on earth look down on someone self-aware enough to recognise it and then accuse them of being the one who judges and looks down on others? Oh, the irony...

Bluntness100 · 21/12/2017 07:38

I'm Welsh and we don't have quite the same obsession as the English

I wonder if that's it, I'm scottish snd I find it very strange people are so obsessed with labelling themselves into a group like this. Yes you get shades of grey on the wealth spectrum, yes there are huge divides between the richest and the poorest, in Scotland like any developed country. But this concept of obsessively labelling yourself working or middle class then slagging Off the class you're not seems bonkers to me. I still can't understand why people do it.

What's even more bonkers is the folks doing it ignore the dictionary definitions of the different clsssed , come up with their own definition "what it means to me" and then label themselves as they fancy.

MiraiDevant · 21/12/2017 08:06

Class as in a form of social stratification exists everywhere.

Stupid to pretend it doesn't. Whether by means of family, location, money, education or inherited status we all stratify ourselves and measure and rank each other against ourselves. What we call that might vary from society to society but it exists in every group of people.

Every choice you make whether to buy "Value" beans or a private education or a nice house in a "nice" area is you identifying yourself as part of a group.

In our twenties and thirties when we do a lot of buying and are establishing ourselves these decisions are important. Earlier we tend to be just "youth" and later we feel we are already established, ("I went to university, live in a detached house and my kids went to private school so I can shop in Primark and drink PG tips" - sort of thing)

An understanding of that system is crucial, (especially if you work in any sort of marketing role) - what is bad is looking down on others based on where you see them fitting in

MiraiDevant · 21/12/2017 08:09

By the way that BBC thing is ridiculous. I cam out as traditionally working class the first time and then changed one answer only - my income - and I came out as Elite. Did it again changing one other answer and it changed again.

SummerLovingGal · 21/12/2017 08:10

I find it more usual that people identify themselves as working class when clearly they are middle class. At least the man in the OP recognises himself as being middle class.