Why do some people feel the need to describe themselves as ‘middle class’?

[lottieandmia22]

I met a man who said

‘I am incredibly lucky. I’m a middle class, white, straight male which puts me at an advantage’

Frankly, this made my teeth itch. I thought ‘what a tosser’

Why do people feel the need to do this? I couldn’t care less which class I am.

I doubt many people aRe obssessed blunt. I mean you're on the thread showing no less interest in the matter than anyone else.

For most of us I suspect our class just is. Like our sex, sexuality, race.

It informs who we are at a deep level. Sometimes we think about it, especially if we're political animals or if we have an interest in how societies work.

With regard to the competition between the classes, well where there is competition for resources...

Traditionally the upper classes have owned them and ensured the working classes got as little as possible.
The middle classes helped the upper classes to do this in exchange for a wee bit more of the pie (though not a place at the table).
Actually plus ca change.

And of course each class developed its own culture in response to that.

I doubt many people aRe obssessed blunt. I mean you're on the thread showing no less interest in the matter than anyone else

Yeah, but I'm just bored and spend quite a bit of time answering all sorts of shite on here. I do find it interesting though because in real life I don't know anyone who talks about class. I don't define myself and if I did it wouldn't tell me who I am. I know who I am and some spurious label isn't going to change that. I don't need a class label to tell me who I am. Especially not a label that everyone has a different defition of.

I actually asked my husband yesterday due to this thread. In 28 years toghether I can honestly say we have never once discussed the subject or even asked each other.

Scotland classless? Really?! Have a read of Muriel Spark for a total skewering of the Scottish class system. Bit out of date, but I don't imagine it's all suddenly disappeared!

I describe myself as middle class. I grew up in a part of London that was very mixed - social housing estates, owner occupied large houses and private rented flats in the same location.
My working class friends would rip the piss out if me if I tried to claim I was working class!

Both my parents went to uni - one of them to an Oxbridge uni. My life experiences, influences, privileges and accent (despite my best efforts to get rid of it a teen!) are different to WC people who grew up on the very same street, despite MC and WC teens hanging out together.

It's not about income (mine is dismal!) it's about identity. If I said I was working class I would be falsely laying claim to a culture that doesn't belong to me IMO. And like I said, my WC friends would laugh!

Every choice you make whether to buy "Value" beans or a private education or a nice house in a "nice" area is you identifying yourself as part of a group.

That bit is the British obsession - paying for a school you can’t really afford or choosing a pokey house because the post code in the ‘right one’.

Yes, stratification does exist in other societies but it’s all very, very prominent in the UK and taken to a whole new level.

It's not about income (mine is dismal!) it's about identity

And this is the case in point, where someone totally ignores the dictionary definition and develops their very own definition. And that definition is based not on what they are as an adult, but what there parents were and how they grew up as a child.

So if people come up with their own definition what's the point in defining class, when Folks just decide what they are as they please? It makes it meaningless.

No it makes it complicated! There are multiple overlapping definitions, and depending on what you are studying you need to take the relevant components (cultural, economic, generational or whatnot) more or less into account.

Yeah, but I'm just bored and spend quite a bit of time answering all sorts of shite on here.
I understand exactly what you're talking about Bluntness. If you have a strong sense of identity, it's a bit annoying to be lumped in with millions of other people who are called 'middle class' or whatever.

'Why is he a tosser for telling the truth. He's not bragging, he's acknowledging that life hasn't been difficult for him. He sounds quite self-aware, possibly also someone who reads a lot on these issues or is interested in sociology or politics. There's been a lot about "checking your privilege" lately and it sounds like he's doing that.'

If you read the whole thread you'll see that 1. I'm autistic so miss social meanings and 2. I understand the point of what he said better now that people have explained it! That's why it's useful to ask about stuff like this on mn and get NT views.

'Excuse me OP, but ANYONE of ANY 'class' can be abusive!!!!!!! (I should know)

Just one example - Mel B from Spice Girls experienced severe Domestic Violence in her last marriage. They're both multi-millionaires.

You are making yourself sound terribly judgemental! I prefer the sound of your date to you quite frankly!!!!'

So Mel B is middle class because she's a multi millionaire? I don't know anything about her background but I didn't say anything about class and abuse being linked. My friend went to Oxford with aristo types who apparently were badly adjusted in her opinion due to abusive childhoods. I've not said in any of my posts that middle class people are not abusive. What I said was that I didn't think he'd had a happy childhood & misunderstood the term 'comfortable' because (again!) I'm autistic FFS 🙄

f you have a strong sense of identity, it's a bit annoying to be lumped in with millions of other people who are called 'middle class' or whatever

I guess I just don't get the fascination, if someone said I was working , middle or elite class I'd shrug and say ok, makes no difference to my life.

But I think You maybe have nailed it. Which is people wish to belong to a group. To something they identify with. And for some, that's about class.

Where as the groups I belong to are the groups of people I know, friends, family, colleagues and they come from all walks of life. For me that's what's important, not defining myself in some singular class bucket that most people can't even define or agree on the definition of.

Mel B is not middle class and she never will be. Class is about decent culture, interest in reading and in the arts, a higher level of education, having a reasonably wide vocabulary - it is about a lot of things. But it is not primarily about money.

It is about how you were raised and the influences of that time.

Sorry that should read:

“Being middle class is about decent culture etc...”

Mel B is not middle class and she never will be I doubt she gives a stuff about that!
Class is about decent culture, interest in reading and in the arts, a higher level of education, having a reasonably wide vocabulary
I give up.

Money does not buy you class. Ask Gatsby.

Do you get the reference?

Class is about decent culture, interest in reading and in the arts, a higher level of education, having a reasonably wide vocabulary - it is about a lot of things. But it is not primarily about money

And here we have yet another definition. This is why it's pointless. People just make up what it means to them.

And this is the case in point, where someone totally ignores the dictionary definition and develops their very own definition.

How am I ignoring the dictionary definition?

Maybe I wasn't clear - I wasn't saying I think It's about self-identification - that you can simply choose what class you are in.

What I meant was it is about your identity as a person - the culture you were brought up in. Working class people in the area I grew up in have a strong accent for example. I don't have that accent (and got the piss taken out of me for it as a teen!). But being MC affords me privilege. In job interviews for example, interviewers with subconscious prejuduces may treat me favourably because I don't sound "common" to them. It was always assumed I'd go to university - by teachers and my own family. My parents sent me to schools with other DC whose parents assumed they would go to uni and had high aspirations for them also.

I don't say I'm MC because I am trying to identify up or any such thing. I say it because to call myself WC would be a total betrayal of my WC friends. I'm not WC. I'm MC and have had doors open to me because of it.

Whilst having capital (money) does not make you middle class, it was always the raison d'etre of the group.

Originally, the middle classes educated themselves to get capital from the upper classes. They adopted (to a degree) the culture of the upper classes to get capital.

The recent emphasis placed on cultural matters in and of themselves by the MC is in part due to their decline. They don't have much capital any more so look more closely at other areas.

Historically, yes. I know that. However, you can be middle class without having an awful lot of money.

Class is about decent culture, interest in reading and in the arts, a higher level of education, having a reasonably wide vocabulary - it is about a lot of things

Oh look, now I'm middle class.

Working class people in the area I grew up in have a strong accent for example

No I'm not, I'm working class. See how ridiculous the whole thing is?

People say they can judge people's class within minutes of meeting them. So the only thing you really observe in that time are dress, snapshot of mannerisms/behaviours and accent.

Is accent really that strongly defined along class lines? Or do people perceive those who lack a strong accent as middle class and those who have one as working class, rather than them actually being MC/WC?

This is interesting although a bit out of date. Yes, yes, it originated in The Daily Mail but do overlook!

How posh are YOU? The 15 household items only the upper middle classes own revealed in our quiz (and the 10 things you should never buy)

By William Hanson For Mail Online
13:07, 08 Apr 2015, updated 14:31, 08 Apr 2015

rose of course.
And you can be WC and have a lot of money ( like me).

I was just pointing out that the insistence by some MC people that it has nothing to do with money isn't true.

The original point to being middle class was to get more money than the working classes. And then to keep it.

Education and the arts and speaking differently were all a means to getting more money.

Sorry pressed too soon.

And now that these things don't necessarily get you more money, the MC have elevated them to good things in and of themselves. Signifiers of higher status.

How am I ignoring the dictionary definition?

With all due respect if you had looked up the dictionary definition you would not ask that question, because your definition is about identity. That's not what the dictionary definition is. Not even close.

I suspect some people feel a certain class, either because that's how they were brought up or that's what they wish to be. And they then make up a definition to justify the label they give themselves as an adult.

Your class is not your accent, your desire to drink from pint glasses, what you aspire to, or what you prefer, it's not what your parents jobs were and what their financial bracket was. It's you, your job and your financial bracket. You as an adult. Not your auntie, not your grannies, not your mum, not your neighbour and not your mate. You.

But for some, this puts them in a class they don't want to be in, so they come up with another defitnion instead. Why bother? It doesn't change who or what you are and no one gives a shit. You're still going to earn the same and do the same job and live in the same house.

So what if your parents were middle class and you're working class, so what if your parents were working class and you're middle class. What difference does the label make. None. You will still live your life they way you are.