How would you expect a school to respond?

[Methenyouplus4]

DC is 13. At lunch time at school, they were with friends getting lunch (with tray in hands). Another student (the same age) came and pulled the bottom half of their uniform down, leaving DC stood in their underwear in front of the vast majority of the school.

The other student had brought over about 7 other students specifically to watch them do this.

Would like to know how you would expect the school to respond to this?

DC said they don't really know other student (other than knowing their name and it being another student in year group). Thank you.

There were a couple of other threads recently about this very same issue.

It depends on the parents. If parents take internal exclusion seriously, the children will as well, if the parents don't support the school, there is nothing the school can do.

I would definitely expect some sort of exclusion, and the perpetrator should not be allowed back to school before apologising. Tbh, if my dc were the victim in this, I would be reporting a sexual assault to the police - or asking the school to do so.

I really hope that your dc is ok. Poor kid.

If this had happened to an adult it would have been taken very seriously. Go to the police AND Ofsted (who will review the school's policy on bullying etc).
Many years ago, I had my handbag stolen by a student. The headteacher being out of school, I rang the police. Their presence made the school deal with it very swiftly and efficiently. (the child was easily identified - he had written his name on some of my cheques and then left the bag in a bush!)

Period of isolation in Inclusion unit, time irrelevant as it's what happens while in there that matters, and I'd also speak to the school-based police officer about coming in to speak to the perpertrator.

greenshoots also schools have to bear in mind that this kind of behaviour doesn’t come from nowhere. This can trigger safeguarding interventions as there could be some abuse at home.

Finally, some students we know have parents who we would be anxious about sending on a fixed term exclusion with because they would be likely to beat their child black and blue. And others who would just shrug and turn the telly on so it could be ineffective or harmful. In these situations an internal exclusion (properly done) is much more effective.

All involved pupils would get internal exclusion and parents notified. The one that did it would probably get external exclusion.

If you have had problems before I'm assuming you have the school policy on complaints etc and know you need to work through the channels first.

However you should then go to the head of governers (unless satisfied) and there is nothing to stop you taking it to the police and reporting as an assault so yes, if that threat got action before use it again although this isn't a long term option. They need to fix the processes in the school and take it seriously.

Sexual assault and abuse is not taking nearly seriously enough in many schools. If the previous attack was also in that vein I would take it up with the governers as a general issue which requires either training or guidelines to help staff and education for the pupils.

The big local comp which all my kids attended takes quite a hard line on this but still think they have work to do. It would absolutely be external exclusion, parents up to shool and a period of monitoring behaviour - more if the circumstances merited it.

Think you should talk to the police before talking to school as you know school is soft and hasn't taken it very seriously so far.

And when you talk to the head teacher make sure you frame it in terms of being there to discuss the deliberate planned sexual assault and public humiliation on your dc and others rather than them calling it a prank.

Also ask for the safeguarding lead to be there - this is not a normal thing for a child to do so they should be looking at that side of things too but more importantly they need to show how they are going to safeguard your dc in school going forward as they have failed them so far.

Shocking!

1st time offence- 1 week 1 hour detention+ 1 week internal+ on report for 1 term+ write letter to victim+ letter home+ mentoring for victim
2nd time offence- 2 weeks 2 hour detention+ 2 weeks external+ on report for 1 term+ write letter to victim+ letter home+ mentoring for victim
3rd time offence- Write letter to victim+ Permanent Exclusion+ police involvement+ letter home+ mentoring for victim

Thank you all. Especially to the poster who mentioned giving strategies to 'brush it off' with other students. I think that might be really helpful to try to stop the 'gossip' that might go on around it in the following days.

I didn't specify sex as didn't think it mattered. I have both DD and DS and would feel the same regardless.

In this case, it was DS who it happened to and another boy who did it.

I think I will ask to speak to head first thing Monday to find out exactly what school is doing before I decide a further course of action. Hopefully they will have looked into it and decided an appropriate response so I don't feel anything further is required and can leave it in the hands of the school.

I'd report the incident to the police without hesitation. You would if an adult did it to you OP. Time we gave children the same rights of protection that we enjoy.

That is shocking. I hope your DC is ok or at least will be when they get over the humiliation x

greenshoots also schools have to bear in mind that this kind of behaviour doesn’t come from nowhere. This can trigger safeguarding interventions as there could be some abuse at home.

"pantsing" someone is a big fad right now.

I really feel for you OP, what an awful thing for your son to go through.

Please do not assume that the school do not want to give out severe punishments or do not agree with your viewpoint. There is so much bureaucracy around exclusions etc, that often Headteachers and schools are left banging their heads off brick walls trying to deal with various red-tapes and loopholes that need to be considered seriously. It may not be deemed safe to exclude the perpetrator for example, or not deemed in their best interest. They could have horrendous home lives or might be involved in child protection etc and this all has to be taken into account (even if the staff dealing with it personally feel that an immediate exclusion would be justified).

I am very familiar with the 3 tier system so in your son's case, we are also dealing with 'younger' children. If an incident of this nature happened in our school, the child (perpetrator) would have an immediate afternoon exclusion, with a view to an external exclusion for 1-2 days (I'm being realistic I'm afraid). The child would have lunch etc in an exclusion area (usually SLT office) and would have no social time or any interaction with other pupils for the during of their internal exclusion (a week of this absolute maximum, and this could happen in addition to internal exclusion). They would then be placed on a monitoring report for at least two weeks and would be likely be excluded from trips if one was due imminently. Parents, social workers etc would be contacted on both sides.

It is all well and good when parents are wanting to grab pitchforks, string naughty students up and demand the most severe possible punishment, but it is really not that simple. Schools are unfairly seen as 'not doing enough' when actually, they've exhausted everything they can do. Threatening to call ofsted and DFE is not condusive to a good parent-school relationship and should be an absolute last resort. I am ofsted trained, and in most cases like this, the schools really have done as much as they can when taking into account the needs of all students involved.

There is a big push at the moment in terms of safeguarding for school and early years staff to be aware of and deal effectively with what is termed peer-on-peer abuse. I would put this under that heading as the (partial) removal of clothing without consent is an act of sexual abuse.

I have to say, my initial anger has went down a bit and I just feel so sad for him.

He didn't tell me about it until I saw a missed call from the school on my mobile and asked if he knew what it would be about.

He didn't tell me about the previous incident either. I think there is such a presure on young men to brush things off and be 'cool' while actually bottling their emotions up. I know suicide is biggest killer for young men and I think DS is very much the type of young man who would be at risk. He would hate the idea of 'making a big deal'/ having apology etc. Their ego/ self esteem is so fragile at that age.

With the previous incident, I was really frustrated with the school as felt their attitude failed to make him feel valued or that his saftey/ well-being was important to them.

It's good that the school tried to contact you about it. I hope there is a positive resolution to this.

MrsP

Your post outlines what I think is wrong with the whole system. The needs to the perpetrator are more important, their needs take 1st priority. If it isn't safe to do have exclusion at home, then they get an internal one- but it is for a reasonable amount of time. And during that time extra support regarding any specific areas can be given. But they should still be punished as severely as anyone else would be for the same action.

There is always an excuse/ extenuating circumstances or a reason children and teenagers should not be made to take responsibility for their actions. Whether it is in relation to bullying, poor behaviour in class or not completing work in class/homework/coursework. I don't understand why we expect or allow a lower standard of behaviour from pupils who have difficult home life. They will, of course, need extra help and support (I am aware that's not easy to do) but I think the same standards of behaviour should be expected. Otherwise, are we not setting them up to fail? How do they learn self-discipline and so on? I truly believe that this is creating more problems down the road as when these children are no longer in school these excuses will no longer be made for them. And then how will they cope?

Through work I see so many young people (and some a little older) who have no idea how to manage things for themselves. They want someone else to fix the problem or tell them what to do or give them an excuse for not having done something they should or doing something they should not have done.

As regards what I would expect OP- I would expect to have a discussion with the head teacher and I would expect serious sanctions on both the individual who pulled down your DS's trousers and those who were the fully aware and participating "audience"- they are all in this together. As other posters have said, if this happened to an adult- in or out of school- there would be consequences. If the child had done that to a teacher I'd bet there would be severe consequences. So why is is less serious if done to another child or teenager?

I would expect exclusion for more than a few days, lunch and breaks spent in supervision for several weeks (a few days is neither here not there), removal of privileges such as school trips and extracurricular activities for a period of time. I would expect parents to be notified and I would expect an apology from those involved to my child.

If any of these not forthcoming I would escalate it to ofsted and police- there should be a school liaison officer who would be able to at least talk to these children to make them understand the seriousness of what they have done.

Yes the peer non peer safeguarding now exists. I used it to highlight my ds case.

But they still put the perpetrators feelings above the victims.

He was having a hard time at home.

Well he homelife was hardly a barrel of laughs with a suicidal anxious pre teen who couldn’t attend school meaning I had to take unpaid leave.

It’s all very well taking the perpetrators life into account - but it’s becoming more and more that it’s becomes the priority.

If I heard my ds had done this I would be 100% supporting any punishment school out in place - as I would no way want to him to think this was EVER ok and think he’d repeat it as punishment wasn’t that bad.

Threatening to call ofsted and DFE is not condusive to a good parent-school relationship

The point at which the school failed to properly address a previous incident until threatened with police is the cause of school-parent relationship breakdown. By failing to take these issues seriously the school has lost trust and that relationship is already gone.

External exclusion. If they don’t comply I would get hold of OFSTED as this completely unacceptable.