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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To say that I’m uncomfortable with money for wedding but none to see children?

126 replies

sparkly01 · 16/12/2017 22:32

I don’t think I am BU. Willing to accept if I am however.

Here goes, my BF is planning a wedding. Her soon to be DH has children from a past relationship that he doesn’t have any contact with. The reason is that his ex won’t allow it. As far as I am aware they haven’t done mediation. He’s not contacted a solicitor to see the children due to cost. However, they are now getting married and he is working overtime etc to help pay for the wedding. I mentioned that I was uncomfortable with this. My BF said I’m out of order for saying this. The thing is, I do actually like her soon to be DH and I find it very difficult to just be alright with the fact they have prioritised a wedding above his children. I know it’s none of my business really, but I am quite confused about how you could have money for one and not the other.

What does mumsnet jury think?

OP posts:

user1474652148 · 17/12/2017 11:40

Maybe it actually suits your bf for there to be no contact. A good friendship requires honesty and given this is an old friendship I think I would have said the same. Unspoken words build resentment and dishonesty changing the friendship forever

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 11:41

Sorry for double posts. The point is sometimes legal intervention is necessary to discuss the best interests of the children and come to an agreement. Men can't be excused just writing their children off because they get their idea of legal battles from Law and Order and can't even be bothered to do a cursory check about what is actually involved.

CandiedPeach · 17/12/2017 11:47

I’ve friends who I’d be as brutally honest with if I thought/felt something I’d tell them. So don’t really think you’re being unreasonable in telling her how you feel. Although I wouldn’t expect her to be ok with it either.

But in regards to vindictive ex’s my mum has a good friend who’s been to court three times, with mediation in between. He was awarded contact the first two and she still didn’t let him see them. The last time the judge said it was obvious a case of parental alienation. But the children were too old to make them see their dad now and basically the damage was done. So that’s it, three kids who he pays for who hate him, all because he left his ex after she hit him round the head with a glass bottle. And yes there was a police report on that and no there was no violence from him. But she agreed to seek help for her drinking and it was dropped.
She bleets all over Facebook about what a shit dad he is and how the kids hate him. How he only cares about his new girlfriend and her kids etc.
Of course there’s two sides to everything, but my mum had been in court with him and all the evidence and professionals opinions match up with what he says.

So it does happens and yes courts will grant contact, but if you turn up to collect them and they aren’t there or refuse to open the door. What do you do?

WinchestersInATardis · 17/12/2017 12:00

My ex wont let me see them

And how many of us would accept that if an ex refused to let us have access to our kids. I'm pretty broke at the moment and would fight tooth and nail, and work all the hours in the day if I had to to pay court costs.
There are only two reasons he'd be working to pay for a wedding first and not a solicitor

He's not that bothered which makes him an arse
Theres something nasty in his past with the ex that means he knows the court would be unlikely to let him have access which makes him an even bigger arse.

Rubies12345 · 17/12/2017 12:03

Isn't it possible he thinks he'll have a better shot at access if he's married and appears a good stepdad.

ScrabbleFiend · 17/12/2017 12:05

He pays for children through the CSA
It amazes me that people think this is something to be proud of. The CSA are there to legally enforce payments for NRP's who don't pay. In almost all cases it's the RP whom opens the case due to not receiving maintenance in the first place. It's also the bare legal minimum and more often than not nowhere near the true cost of raising children. I wouldn't go near a man who had to be forced to pay for his children, even if he did see them.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 17/12/2017 12:11

I don't think he would be a stepdad? And even if we was I doubt that would have little bearing on a court case

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 12:16

The courts don't give a toss if he's married and even if he was misguided enough to think they did, surely that would be grounds for a quick dash to the registry office as soon as possible rather than saving up for months for a big do.

rwalker · 17/12/2017 12:19

you don't know all the facts both side so i would try hard not to judge .Guy i work with split from wife she stops access at the drop of a hat and says see you in court .This tends to follow when he won't give her EVERYTHING as a financial settlement practically broken him . The discription of him could be the same so with out all the facts i would keep out

Autumnskiesarelovely · 17/12/2017 12:24

I think that you are being a good best friend for bringing it up. Before marriage is the time to be very frank about who you are committing to. Your BF is I presume wanting kids? That’s a big concern.

However, after you’ve bought it up. It’s then up to your friend to decide for herself. I’d frame it as ‘I know this is uncomfortable BF - and I don’t know the whole story, but you are my BF and I’m worried this does not paint him a good way. Please get to the bottom of this story, before your marriage’

It is a big red flag.

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 12:24

Why do people keep telling the OP she can't know all the facts, then give examples of their colleague, friend, neighbours cousin who is being denied access and apparently they know all the facts?

Hissy · 17/12/2017 12:33

You’ve held up a mirror in front of her, that’s why she’s cross

What you said to her about the man she loves - that he’s a shit dad - has hit Home.

He is and she knows it

Ikeptthemwithmebabe · 17/12/2017 12:38

Like others I cannot imagine ever giving up on trying to see my DC. I think it's a complicated issue though.

Someone very close to me has not seen his child in several years. I think at the heart of this he does not realise how much he mattered as a father. Terrible self-esteem issues from a bad childhood and then a bad relationship. And I guess there are very strong cultural messages about children needing their mothers more than fathers. Fathers are massively undervalued as carers.

All of this underlies his explanation of difficult ex.
His ex was a very unpleasant partner. If she was angry she would row in front of the child. He said there were many unpleasant incidents that were upsetting for his child.

Eventually all contact was stopped, he thought it was better for the child that way. If he stepped away the child would no longer live with conflict. I wonder if what she really needed was for him to hear how difficult it was for her. While she behaved terribly, I know she was also struggling to cope alone.

I think family mediation would have helped them to see each others side. I think a formal process might have been effective in ensuring she complied with contact.

Despite knowing how badly the father feels I think he has taken the easy option. I know he felt beaten down but I don't think he should have given up. But I don't judge him harshly for that. His apathy wasn't because he is a deadbeat dad. Its sad all round.

ZigZagandDustin · 17/12/2017 12:41

Men are utterly shafted by the courts. You have no idea what this ex has actually done to put barriers in place. I hardly blame (some) men for walking away considering what they are facing from their children's mothers.

And it is none of your business. You'd be no friend of mine after a comment like that. Superior know-it-all.

Oldraver · 17/12/2017 12:43

If this were me I too would agree with those that say it isnt really my business.

But too bloody right I would judge a man and his partner who prioritise a wedding over seeing the children I accept my view is clouded by my waste of space 'father' and his OW, and their boat,only going on Kuoni holidays, insisting on living in a posh place

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 12:50

Men are utterly shafted by the courts

Actually there is a presumption of contact and women are forced to regularly hand over their children to abusive men under the threat of prison for breaching the order or reversal of residency.

This man would almost certainly be awarded contact unless there is some deep dark secret he is hiding. Enforcing the order might be a battle, or it might be that mediation is all it takes for things to settle down. The point is that this guy has never even tried. 200 quid to make a court application, or spend it on wedding flowers.

PumpkinSquash · 17/12/2017 12:51

YABU. Absolutely nothing to do with you, mind your own business. Why would you even say that to your friend? Not exactly your friend's fault, is it?!

Ikeptthemwithmebabe · 17/12/2017 12:52

Why do people keep telling the OP she can't know all the facts, then give examples of their colleague, friend, neighbours cousin who is being denied access and apparently they know all the facts?

As examples of possible situations that might be useful to broaden OPs understanding (and help her feel comfortable continuing her friendship).

Men are utterly shafted by the courts.

I don't think men are shafted by the courts. An oversimplification... But women are shafted by an economy/culture that involves them often being primary carers. Then on separation they find that role totally devalued and father's massively praised for any contact they have with child. Mothers are usually primary resident parent because that reflects what the child is used to. Both parents are shafted by patriarchy. I may be explaining this badly as I need to stop MNing and go out so rushing!

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 17/12/2017 12:52

I guess there are very strong cultural messages about children needing their mothers more than fathers. Fathers are massively undervalued as carers

I think it's more to do with women doing the vast majority of child rearing, and men (especially useless men) taking a back seat. So when it comes to custody, the courts consider the best interests of the child, which is usually the mother because she's taken care of them better.

If Father’s are ever worried about not having their kids in the event of a split, they need to pull their weight more when they are in a relationship. Too many do jack shit and then expect to have an equal split when it suits hem? No. Doesn't work like that.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 17/12/2017 12:54

Men are utterly shafted by the courts

The courts have the interests of children as a priority. It's not a coincidence that this is usually the woman. Men shaft themselves, the courts don't do it for them.

grannytomine · 17/12/2017 13:05

Actually there is a presumption of contact and women are forced to regularly hand over their children to abusive men You mean the father.

I had to write a report for CAFCAS about a young man who was trying to get access to his child. His ex had told the court all sorts. I don't know the rights and wrongs of everything she said but the lies she told in relation to his employment were definitely vicious and untrue. He didn't see his child for over a year, when contact restarted it was under supervision until everyone was happy that the child was safe. Well everyone except the ex.

There is no excuse for using children in this way, parents should be grow up and put the children first.

LipstickHandbagCoffee · 17/12/2017 13:09

There’s a lot of your be nice if... going on and that’s problematic
Youre presuming the kids want to come. But you dont know this

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 13:09

Yes, I was referring to fathers who are abusive. Women regularly have to hand their children over to men who committed DV against them so the idea that the courts wouldn't give contact to an ordinary decent men who are being denied it for no good reason is false.

grannytomine · 17/12/2017 13:13

stitchglitched, many men are denied contact because women have lied, the young man I referred to was one of them. A friend's husband is another, his son has stated as soon as the court will listen to him he intends to live with his father and step mother. I know another man who was accused of sexual abuse of his wife and children, he was suicidal. It was all proved to be lies when she found a new man and wanted ex to start looking after the children and she withdrew all the allegations. You are very naive if you believe women don't do this.

There are abusive men, there are shit fathers but please don't pretend it is all one sided.

stitchglitched · 17/12/2017 13:17

I haven't said women don't lie and obstruct, I've said that if this man should go to court to see his children over spending money on a wedding.

The young man you referred to got contact by going through the courts, yes? So the courts didn't shaft him because of his ex's lies.

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