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AIBU?

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Original poster

Or perhaps doctors shouldn’t be branding their patients’ internal organs

141 replies

Zarathrustra · 16/12/2017 10:06

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/doctor-signed-patients-livers-law-courts

OP posts:
Gammeldragz · 16/12/2017 10:09

Saw this the other day. Funny, but yeah - not OK.

vilamoura2003 · 16/12/2017 10:10

I don't know, if it was me that he had operated on with life saving surgery, he could etch swear words on my liver for all I would care, I would just be eternally indebted for saving my life 🤔

Lethaldrizzle · 16/12/2017 10:11

If he had saved my life - would not care

DurhamDurham · 16/12/2017 10:13

I think it’s an incredibly arrogant thing to do, I’m not sure why it would upset me if I’d been one of his patients but it would. I’d be grateful he had successfully operated on me but I would think it was completely unprofessional to brand me.

GabriellaMontez · 16/12/2017 10:15

It's not a trait I want in my surgeon.

I'd take a different surgeon. He's not indispensable. Though clearly has a God complex.

ijustwannadance · 16/12/2017 10:20

Wonder how many others he did during his career. People going in for scans and having SB WOZ ERE on there organs.

It's just such an odd thing to do. Maybe he thought he was an artist and needed to sign his work.

NataliaOsipova · 16/12/2017 10:24

It struck me as a stupid, immature thing to do. Like medicine students leaving bits of dissected cadavers on the bus as a rag week prank. Absolutely he should have been given a bollocking. But an assault charge? Don't know. As others have said and, in fact, as a patient whose life he said did say, if he saved her life, they wouldn't care.

GuntyMcGee · 16/12/2017 10:30

I've got to say that I agree with the assault charge.

The patient did not consent to having any kind of graffiti put into her liver. What the surgeon did is arrogant and crass and showed a disregard for the fact that it was a human being on his operating table.

The article linked to comes across as arrogant too. 'I'm a surgeon, I save lives, it shouldn't be criminal to have a laugh over an unconscious patient'. Actually, how about respecting the patient and adhering to the rules of your profession. You know, act like a professional...

Nurses and other HCPs get hauled over hot coals for this kind of shit, and so they should. Accountability for actions is important. Surgeons should be just as accountable and perhaps should be knocked of their pedestals to remember that they're not god-like. They're doing a job that they're trained for, should behave like professionals and have a modicum of respect for those vulnerable people who are on their operating table.

FrLukeDuke · 16/12/2017 10:32

Burning someone for no medical reason is assault

flumpybear · 16/12/2017 10:36

It's a bit narcissistic, totally hideous but he's a talented surgeon .... reprimanded but not sacked as he can save lives

kaitlinktm · 16/12/2017 10:37

I don't know that it justifies an assault charge, but it is distasteful. Although I get that they have to balance detachment with compassion to do their job, this sort of thing just adds to the opinion of some that surgeons (along with lawyers and bankers) are in a profession favoured by sociopaths. It shows a certain arrogance or possibly even contempt for the patient.

I know it happens with medical students, but I suppose their youth defends them a bit - and they are under the authority of their university. One would hope that by the time they are surgeons they would have matured a little.

If I had been the patient, I wouldn't have wanted him charged with assault or to lose his job, but neither would I want him to think it is OK to do this.

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/12/2017 10:43

Makes you wonder what else he has done to patients that are asleep and unable to consent.

After all from some of the responses, what people don't know doesn't hurt them.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2017 10:43

Agree with the assult charge. People consent to the operation and to sign to say they are aware of the risks. They don't sign to say they are Ok to be tagged like some abandoned building without their knowledge

Anaesthetics carry risks and that was extra time they were unnecessarily under.

10 seconds or 10 mins it was non vital and purely recreational use of a person's body whilst they were not able to stop them.

I would not want him near me or my family. A decent surgeon would be remembered for what they did for the person. They wouldn't need to sign their name

AppleKatie · 16/12/2017 10:43

I think I would have wanted him charged with assault if he’d been my doctor.

I dislike the tone of the article and I would hope the writer is wrong and that the second surgeon didn’t only report because of ‘professional rivalry’.

I think it’s pretty clearly wrong and extremely arrogant.

reallybadidea · 16/12/2017 10:46

Alternative point of view which I broadly agree with personally www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/doctor-signed-patients-livers-law-courts

SummerKelly · 16/12/2017 10:46

I would have wanted him charged with assault too, I was shocked at a Henry Marsh's response and won't be reading his book now. I think perhaps as a survivor of sexual assault this would have seriously freaked me out because it's someone abusing my body without consent.

MissionItsPossible · 16/12/2017 10:48

What he did was unsavoury, narcissistic and pointless. The writer of that article in the OP is unbelievably arrogant.

MissionItsPossible · 16/12/2017 10:49

reallybadidea that is exactly the same article

jacks11 · 16/12/2017 10:54

Of course Dr's shouldn't be branding their patient's internal organs. I don't think anyone thinks he should have done it.

In the article linked, Henry Marsh doesn't say Dr's should do or that it should go unpunished. He just doesn't think that assault charges were appropriate.

Reflexella · 16/12/2017 11:05

Agree with assault charge. What he did was against consent. Shows contempt for his patients, he treated them like a piece of meat.

Complete arrogant arse.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/12/2017 11:05

I agree with most on this thread and particularly with BoneyBack, this sense of entitlement, where does it end exactly?

He's a talented surgeon? So what. There are other talented surgeons and there will be after that. He was paid to do a job and his arrogance and disrespect for the patient is what will make him unemployable.

reallybadidea · 16/12/2017 11:07

Oh duh, silly me. Well anyway I do think assault charges are disproportionate and I hope he doesn't face a jail term

Chrys2017 · 16/12/2017 11:10

Surgeons are not normal people and have to perform under incredible pressure and stress. They have to be somewhat arrogant and detached to function under those circumstances and I can easily see why something like this could happen.
So no, he shouldn't have done it, but no harm was caused and he certainly shouldn't have his career ended because of it. How is that of benefit to society?

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/12/2017 11:15

'Surgeons are not normal people'? Really? How about air-traffic controllers? They have the lives of thousands of people in their hands. How about that for stress and pressure? Plenty of other stressful and pressurised jobs out there.

Surgeons are not gods and most would not do this. The example given of the manufacturer's mark on a titanium leg implant just demonstrates the fatuousness of the author of this excusing piece of 'journalism'.

WillowWept · 16/12/2017 11:24

he treated them like a piece of meat

As hideous as it sounds I think you actually need that to be a successful surgeon. You need to be capable of treating the body simply as a machine and in doing so I imagine it’s an easy line to cross into inappropriate disregard.