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Original poster

Or perhaps doctors shouldn’t be branding their patients’ internal organs

141 replies

Zarathrustra · 16/12/2017 10:06

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/15/doctor-signed-patients-livers-law-courts

OP posts:
RedDogsBeg · 16/12/2017 12:38

The other concerning aspect of this is that all the other staff in the theatre at who witnessed him doing this (and according to the article he has admitted to doing it twice) either:

a) thought it was all a jolly good jape and saw nothing wrong with him doing it

Or

b) were to scared or craven to say anything at the time to him directly or afterwards to the relevant department.

Sallystyle · 16/12/2017 12:40

baffled by those who wouldn't be bothered by it.

Me too. Especially on a website where so many are very passionate about having bodily autonomy (rightfully so). Apparently some think it is ok for a surgeon to do what they like with your body as long as they saved your life.

BlazingPaddles · 16/12/2017 12:41

Especially on a website where so many are very passionate about having bodily autonomy (rightfully so).

Excellent point.

Sallystyle · 16/12/2017 12:43

People are too sensitive and just looking for reasons to be offended

I can't believe I just read this.

I am not particularly sensitive or easily offended. I do believe that I deserve my body to be treated with respect and I also believe in the word consent. No one has the right to do what they want with my body without my consent, especially when I am under GA and being operated on by a person I am literally meant to trust with my life.

noeffingidea · 16/12/2017 12:53

Of course the assault charge is justified.
Whether individual posters would care or not is beside the point. Consent and respect for the patient is paramount and any HCP that doesn't understand that needs to rethink their career choice, no matter how skilled they are.

gamerwidow · 16/12/2017 12:57

The Doctor took away the patients body autonomy. They were unconscious and vulnerable people in need of medical care not to be used as his playthings.
Consent for surgery gives him limited rights over their body for the duration of the surgery it is not a free pass to do whatever he fancies with them.

He11y · 16/12/2017 12:59

There’s so much negligence and so many bad decisions, with life changing consequences, made within the NHS that I just can’t get my knickers in a twist over this. The surgery was successful, he hasn’t killed anyone and that’s the bottom line for me. It was wrong for sure but there is worse going on every day.

Yes he’s arrogant but a lot of surgeons are - in my opinion more doctors with that type of personality are likely to be attracted to surgery, and will probably be better surgeons, as there has to be a certain level of detachment to do what they do day in day out.

Can you imagine the shortage if they removed every arrogant consultant!?

restbiterepeat · 16/12/2017 13:06

If you abuse the trust of the unconscious body underneath your knife then you have no place in an operating theatre.

restbiterepeat · 16/12/2017 13:16

You know, it's shit like this that would make me think twice about donating my children's organs if they were to die. I would need to know that their bodies were treated gently not picked over by people who just see meat on the table.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/12/2017 13:18

He11y so if you or somebody you love has to have an operation and ends up with this 'Doctor Doodle', you won't mind when he takes it a step farther and tattoos his name or some kind of territorial mark on your/their prone and unconscious body?

You won't mind if that's then shared on FB or some other 'meeja'? After all, nobody will have died as a result, will they?

There needs to be an outcry about this and he and everybody else in a position of caring for a person, needs to have the message hammered home that this isn't acceptable and he had no right to do it, none whatsoever. Because if it's not tackled hard, right now, it will escalate with who knows what kind of moronic one-upmanship.

Backingvocals · 16/12/2017 13:19

agree restbite. It's a very basic level of respect being demanded here. I'm sure on the table we do become a piece of meat and that's probably as it has to be - otherwise the emotion might cloud the task to be done. But that's why there are strict rules - so that surgeons can operate within an emotionless space without dehumanising that piece of meat which is actually a person.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 16/12/2017 13:19

restbitrepeat, exactly so. That's one of the likely 'ripples' from this pathetic surgeon's behaviour. It's completely inexcusable.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2017 13:44

There's being arrogant and there's being an arsehole with absolutely no respect for the trust and faith and the job that's been given to them.

There are families out there in the waiting room for hours worried sick about their loved ones and the drs in there treating them like a play thing.

Absolutely abhorrent behaviour.

You don't have to be a nice person. You don't have to be the patients or families best friend. What you do have to do is what is necessary to save that person's life and administer the correct treatment and treat them decently.

AppleKatie · 16/12/2017 13:48

If you are ever in the position of being offered life-saving surgery on the condition that the surgeon will 'autograph' his work, rest assured that you will give your permission.

Yes I might well do. I might also give my permission in that situation if he says I will save your life but I’m taking your house/car/life savings.

It doesn’t make it right for the surgeon to demand these things because he is an position of such awesome power.

A civilised society needs checks and balances for this very reason.

Fortybingowings · 16/12/2017 14:01

He shouldn’t have done it, neither should any surgeon.
That said, I personally wouldn’t give a stuff if his technical skills meant he’d saved my life.

Gileswithachainsaw · 16/12/2017 14:08

That said, I personally wouldn’t give a stuff if his technical skills meant he’d saved my life

But that surgeon could not have saved anyone's life without the selflessness of an organ donors family who despite their grief consented to give their family members organs

It's no better than pissing on their grave tbh

SonicBoomBoom · 16/12/2017 14:29

To me, this is no different than sexually assaulting someone when they're under anaesthetic. The person will never know, won't suffer any discomfort, and what they don't know won't hurt them.

He deserves to lose his job. There was absolutely no need for him to do this. The arrogance is breathtaking, and no, that sort of arrogance is not necessary to be a surgeon.

CaptainChristmas · 16/12/2017 14:36

He deserves to lose his job. There was absolutely no need for him to do this. The arrogance is breathtaking, and no, that sort of arrogance is not necessary to be a surgeon.

I think most surgeons would be (rightly) insulted if they thought people thought this was normal surgeon behaviour or in some way acceptable because “surgeons have to be arrogant”.

RedDogsBeg · 16/12/2017 14:37

Exactly Giles at a time when there is talk of an opt out system for organ donation here we have a surgeon who has admitted to carving his initials onto a donated organ twice.

I can't understand all the posters who say "I wouldn't care if he saved my life" what else would you be happy to have done to you on the grounds that the person doing it saved your life? His job is to save lives wherever possible that should be more than enough reward for his ego.

RedDogsBeg · 16/12/2017 14:42

Captain if other surgeons don't believe his behaviour was right or acceptable why did the surgeon who wrote the article castigate the surgeon who whistle blew on this? Why did the author of the article make excuses for James Bradwell's unacceptable behaviour? Why did no other surgeon in the hospital or any of the witnesses to the act within the operating theatre criticise him at the time or take their concerns to the relevant authorities?

curryforbreakfast · 16/12/2017 14:44

baffled by those who wouldn't be bothered by it.....Me too. Especially on a website where so many are very passionate about having bodily autonomy (rightfully so)

I'm slightly baffled too but I also wouldn't be bothered very much, I don't think. I don't know why. I feel like I probably should be bothered but I'm not.
Weird.

HamishBamish · 16/12/2017 14:45

It’s an appalling thing to do and a massive breach of trust. I can’t think what on Earth drove him to do it, but it’s a very arrogant act. I’m glad he got caught and yes, I think he should have been sacked.

CaptainChristmas · 16/12/2017 14:48

@red

I said most surgeons. There’s always going to be some idiot who defends the indefensible.

CaptainChristmas · 16/12/2017 14:55

I also take issue with this guy’s assertion that empathy is a hindrance to surgeons. Is that what he’s saying? Idiot.

My (surgeon) dad empathises greatly with his patients and their families. If anything goes wrong, it will effect him for a very long time. The fact he can carry on, (he’s in his 60s), is not because he doesn’t empathise with his patients. It’s the complete opposite and (I’m told), he’s extremely good at his job.

RedDogsBeg · 16/12/2017 15:02

I appreciate that you said most Captain but none of them have spoken out against JB, nor did they at the time.

Fortunately, I think the surgeons I and my dh have been treated by are of the ilk of your dad but cases like this and the defence of JB's actions or lack of criticism at the time do make you wonder.