Would I be unreasonable to correct the teacher?

[Horthnangerabbey]

It is a minor thing really but if the teacher had told the class something that you knew was wrong, would you tell her? Or would you just explain to your own child the correct info and keep quiet?

You are clearly what we refer to at work as a 'details person' Lakie

"Gwenhwyfar - duckbilled platypuses are mammals, but lay eggs. I believe mammals are so-called because they have mammary glands."

I get the etymology, but I did think I was also taught that mammals gave birth to their young as opposed to laying eggs.

"I meant 'I suppose we as a society do'. I didn't mention lecturers - I am not talking about academics. The professions I listed are those people enter when they don't want to be academics but they have excellent qualifications.

Why don't we want teachers to have 'that level' of qualification? By that, I mean an excellent degree.

confused"

Because the next layer down of people need to have opportunities too? If all you value is academic ability of the level of doctors or lawyers, you might argue that you want that for all professions or even all jobs.

Do social workers need to be as intelligent as lawyers? Do librarians all need to be Oxbridge graduates? Do translators all need to be Mensa members? Do local journalists need to be in the top something percent of intelligent people?

Even if it were possible, it wouldn't be fair for anyone not at the level of a lawyer or doctor to be working in manual labour or routine or operative work.

"French teachers of English (most of whom have never set foot in Ireland) really should not be using the word "copy book" to their classes in this way and I would be very grateful to anyone who pointed this out to them."

I wouldn't point it out because it doesn't bother me one bit. So what if they use an Irishism. I find it perfectly understandable. Have you been stewing about this for year???

Having said that, I don't like the way French teachers in Belgium insist on using the word 'foresee' in the same way that prevoir is used in French (they don't always match) and insist on using broadcast for every kind of television programme.

Why don't we want teachers to have 'that level' of qualification? By that, I mean an excellent degree.

confused

I am confused by all this doctors earn loads teachers have a 40k ceiling guff. Have you seen the salaries available to senior managers in academy chains etc? Doctors don't earn that much either until they are consultants.

"Have you seen the salaries available to senior managers in academy chains etc? "

We're talking about ordinary teachers though aren't we? What a senior manager gets isn't that relevant.

But 'ordinary doctors' aren't paid that much either...?

"But 'ordinary doctors' aren't paid that much either...?"

Eh? GPs are paid about 100k aren't they?
Trainee/junior doctors might be underpaid.

Registrar's aren't paid more than teachers and have to make significant clinical decisions. Yes consultant/GP level is better paid bur after years. And there are well paid jobs in teaching for talented people who want them. It isn't as simple as poor pay/ good pay across professions. You have to train for years and have eye watering responsibility for high pay in medicine.

It is much much easier to qualify as a teacher believe me

That's absolutely true. The problem for decades in this country has been the attitude towards teachers has been vastly different to the reverence shown to doctors. We have limits on the numbers of people taken on to medical degrees but we struggle to attract enough graduates into teaching. And then we lose them. We lose doctors too and this particular government has gone out of its way to insult junior doctors but hey they really practised on teachers first, didn't they!

"You have to train for years and have eye watering responsibility for high pay in medicine."

Hm. We do consider GPs to be ordinary doctors though don't we. Most doctors do become GPs or specialists or consultants, don't they?
Most teachers don't become head teachers. Primary school head teachers aren't paid that much.

You can’t really compare being a doctor with being a teacher. They’re so different. I couldn’t do either btw and applaud anyone who does it! Amazing people.

But, the hours junior doctors have to put in are crazy and very antisocial. I am the daughter of a consultant surgeon and sister of a medical student. I also know lots of teachers and one of my best friends is doing her pgce now. How many teachers get called in every Christmas to deal with a stabbing (as my dad did for years in a row when I was little)? Equally, when does a doctor have to deal with 30 boisterous teenagers while trying to meet impossible targets.

Doctors have to train as a doctor for a full 5 years before they start their in-work training as opposed to some teachers who train for 1 after a more general degree before they get a job as a NQT. I can see why, generally, doctors are paid more, but also I see why the most talented teachers can earn a lot too.

It’s also seriously competetive to get into medical degrees. In some areas of teaching they’ll accept a 2:2 in mathematics to begin a pgce and still offer a golden handshake.

In hospitals, there’s a clear career pathway for doctors, which means they know when they are likely to progress, but it isn’t a guarantee. NHS doctors have to sit a lot of interviews and pass a lot of exams before they progress.

I think with teaching, the career pathway isn’t as clear maybe? There’s only one head teacher role per school, unlike with hospitals where there are numerous consultant roles, and not everyone wants to be a headteacher anyway.

I hate all the doctors are the top elete and deserve the best because they're demi gods type hero worship.

I come from a family heavily dominated by doctors - most of them are no more intelligent than most teachers. They just have the absolutely huge advantage of coming from a family of doctors (have you seen statistics on how many do, it's food for thought?). That gives them contacts, insider knowledge about getting into medical school etc and money behind them. They also have focus and large egos/ self confidence. About the only thing that makes them special is the focused determination to be a doctor and the very high self esteem. It is rather easier to have those with a family already in your chosen field behind you, and when your chosen career is hero worshipped.

In many of the countries with the best performing educational systems teachers are held in the same regard as doctors, but that's a matter of culture in most cases. I believe Finland did actively and deliberately make the change, but there certainly isn't the political will in England!

*elite not elete

"most of them are no more intelligent than most teachers. "

I'm sure there's some overlaps, but there are lots of teachers who could never be doctors. I could be a teacher (I know because I was once offered a place on a PGCE), but never a doctor. The academic requirements to be a teacher is just a degree though I know they may specify 2:1 or above in some places. My parents were primary school teachers without even having a degree. They have a teaching certificate from the time before teacher training colleges were affiliated to universities.

You need other skills to teach of course, so it's not all about academic ability and neither should it be. I think the pay is pretty good, except for those needing to buy a house in London. Where I live, a starting salary of 22k is great. It's just not an attractive profession because of all the shit they have to deal with.

I’m also from a family dominated by doctors and I think they’d admit they are no more intelligent than me (humanities graduate) and that it’s all down to drive. Is that a bad thing? I have no drive to be a doctor, as I simply don’t want to be one. People who want to be doctors are more driven to do it? Good!

My sister (medical student) btw, got shocking a levels at our mediocre state school. She had to go away and worked as a carer on a zero hours contract for years before she finally managed to get her gamsat and interview to get to university. Not because she’s privileged and academic, but because she worked her bum off to get there. I’d rather hero worship the likes of her than an F1 driver or something. Teachers are awesome too though.

Gwen I was a teacher for a bit and had all As at A level (pre A* existing), a first and a master's degree - my cousin got into medical school with AAB. Loads and loads of "ordinary" secondary school teachers had masters degrees related to education.
A lot more doctors than teachers have been privately educated and tutored, and the family support behind them has often meant they have not had to have part time jobs and have been able to focus on their studies. It artificially influences the A level grades as a measure of "intelligence" and specialness.

evelyn

I think I’m some regions you would not be the exception with your grades. In NI, teaching is as compete as medicine (I think). But, in England, I’ve known a lot of teachers with much less impressive grades than you have. I don’t know why it isn’t valued enough as a profession here to A) pay them more and B) make higher academic achievement a prerequisite.

*competitive

But would a doctor know Jane Austen was not Victorian??!

"Loads and loads of "ordinary" secondary school teachers had masters degrees related to education. "

I think I'd have more chance of being able to do a masters in education than a science A level though. You also don't have to have one to teach.

I agree with you about the class background of medical students though.

" I don’t know why it isn’t valued enough as a profession here to A) pay them more and B) make higher academic achievement a prerequisite."

But why should higher academic achievement be a prerequisite? Did you see my comment above about that? I'll have to re-post it because I don't get why people want to exclude the majority of graduates from teaching.

Sorry for the reptition everyone, but Captain can you answer my comment below: "I meant 'I suppose we as a society do'. I didn't mention lecturers - I am not talking about academics. The professions I listed are those people enter when they don't want to be academics but they have excellent qualifications.

"Why don't we want teachers to have 'that level' of qualification? By that, I mean an excellent degree.

confused"

Because the next layer down of people need to have opportunities too? If all you value is academic ability of the level of doctors or lawyers, you might argue that you want that for all professions or even all jobs.

Do social workers need to be as intelligent as lawyers? Do librarians all need to be Oxbridge graduates? Do translators all need to be Mensa members? Do local journalists need to be in the top something percent of intelligent people?

Even if it were possible, it wouldn't be fair for anyone not at the level of a lawyer or doctor to be working in manual labour or routine or operative work.

Gwen that works both ways; my mother has a medical degree but she couldn't write a literary analysis, her brain doesn't work that way. Many people are very good at one type of academic work and terrible at others. There is no real reason to see people who are better at one traditionally male subject as special and people who are good at other traditionally girls' subjects as run of the mill.