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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be shocked at teacher telling DD to 'hold in' period.

727 replies

yaela123 · 11/12/2017 18:41

DD is 15 and her school have a no going to the toilet during lesson time rule, which I completely agree with on the whole as I know how disruptive it can be if people are constantly in and out, and how everyone just uses it as an excuse to bunk off (I am a teacher too - very different environment though)

Only exception is if you have a medical note from a doctor.

Today in one of her lessons DD says she could feel that she really needed to change her pad, she was getting quite worried about it leaking. She eventually asked the (male) teacher if she could go to the loo.

Teacher: No, you know the rules
DD: I really need it.
Teacher: What did I just say?
DD: It's a girl problem...
Teacher: What do you mean?
DD: Umm... I'm on my period
Teacher: Break is only in half an hour, hold it in til then

Obviously those aren't the exact words said but she says it's pretty accurate.
DD is quite shy so did just wait til break (no leakage btw).

She doesn't seem overly bothered but AIBU to be pretty shocked at him telling her to hold it in? Surely even men have some basic idea that it doesn't work like that?

OP posts:
Verbena37 · 14/12/2017 13:32

I’ve just told dd to go and leave the room if they say no to her asking to use the loo.
I said I’ll deal with fall out if they’re funny about it.

AlmostAJillSandwich · 14/12/2017 14:09

One thing i will never agree with is the locking of/refusal to use toilets in schools. The use of a toilet is a bloody basic human right surely?
Admittedly i do have OCD about toilets, and an irrational fear of having an accident, but the way they were policed and locked down when i was in school still has a negative effect on me 13 years since i left the bloody place, it was like a bloody prison.

All the outside doors to the school were on electronic timers and could only be opened from the inside until the last 5 minutes of break time/lunch, so if you went out, you weren't getting back in until then, or someone let you in! Lunch was split and only had the loo open from the last 5 minutes of first lunch break, BUT you weren't allowed on the corridors as still lessons going on so usually couldn't go if you had first lunch, or else you'd be late and get detention from your last class.

They changed rotas daily of which teacher had the toilet key, and they would go and have THEIR break in the staff room and have a cuppa and a wee and chat before they bothered to come open the toilets with 5 minutes to go. Then expect every girl who needed the loo in a school with 600 girls, to be able to go, with only 3 working cubicles and ONE loo roll being passed about, in 3 minutes so they could lock up again before end of break. They would stand outside, repeatedly yelling at you to hurry up. It was an 8 cubicle bathroom but they never fixed anything, at least one or two would have no seats, one didn't have a bloody door, and they were proper floor to ceiling doors and pitch black once shut and half had broken lights so were unusable by any but the brave. The room was packed like sardines, with a distinct queue per cubicle, but the popular girls would push in and ignore the queues, so those like me got stuck waiting til the end. A few times the last users got locked in while they were still on the loo and the teacher buggered off, how that never happened to me i don't know.

The only other toilet was in the gym, but it never had loo roll or soap and the gym door was locked apart from letting the current lessons students in to prevent thefts from bags.

They did have the pass cards if you had say, a water infection and got a doctors note you needed toilet access, but first you'd have to go to the office, wait for them to actually appear from out of the back, find the rota, tell you who had the key that day, go disturb their lesson to get the key, go to the bloody toilet, (get held up by randoms who were skipping classes who wander in to go or do makeup or stand about smoking/chatting who you had no control over getting out til they wanted to leave) go give the key back and go back to your lesson. It would take a good 20 minutes, and the ridicule you got on return that "Clearly they went for a shit, look how long they took!" (shitting at school was a mortal sin you would never live down, the bullying for it was horrendous) and quite honestly the faff to get the key took so long, that if you had a bloody infection and sudden desperate need to go, you would never have made it in time anyway!

I remember in year 4, a poor kid, asking to go to the loo, being refused, then peeing himself in his chair when he couldn't wait. The teachers reaction, simply "Why didn't you say you were that desperate?" He bloody well did, she didn't believe him!

Whether the crazy lack of toilet access actually played a part or not i have no idea, but i doubt years of having long periods of no access and forcibly going when i had the chance didn't help, i now have an unstable bladder. I can need to go at any time, full bladder or practically empty, and i get 2 minutes or i will have an accident. If i'd had this in my teens i'd have been having accidents daily, its ludicrous "rules" like this exist, its not like we decide when we need the toilet or can plan it, if you need to go, you need to bloody go!

Gierg · 14/12/2017 15:10

@AlmostAJillSandwich

yeah! This totally! Going to the loo is a right, although I do completely understand the reasons behind not letting children wander the school during lesson time to potentially cause trouble. I am so shocked though about the lack of access to toilets during break times, the the lack of care taken with school toilets (ours were SO disgusting) and the just simple fact of not being enough toilets is just awful!

I never used the school toilet for fear of ridicule/bullying and just how gross they were... I think I used to use them if I was doing a school show or something, but that was only when I was at school for like 10/11 hours on rehearsal/show days!

I'm pretty sure there is a campaign to improve school toilets, and it needs to happen as they were so awful when I was at school...

We also need to find ways to make them safer and also trust young people to use them sensibly... no one should have to risk major embarrassment just because teachers are paranoid that students are going to mess about...

Lizzie48 · 14/12/2017 16:13

What you describe about your school experience with toilets is appalling, AlmostAJillSandwich. I'm not surprised that it's led to you having OCD with regards to toilets. Thanks

Nyx1 · 14/12/2017 16:19

Verbena "I’ve just told dd to go and leave the room if they say no to her asking to use the loo.
I said I’ll deal with fall out if they’re funny about it."

Yes. It is ridiculous to say no.

OP will you tell us what the teacher says in reply? He sounds a right idiot.

DeleteOrDecay · 14/12/2017 16:23

Almost that sounds awful. I remember the toilets getting locked in my school, I vaguely remember the reason being because people were smoking in there. Unfortunately I never had any 'emergencies' but looking back I can't actually believe that locking school toilets is allowed. It's madness that just because a minority messes about that the whole school should have a basic human right taken away from them for any period of time.

I hope this sort of thing doesn't happen now but wouldn't be surprised if it did.

youarenotkiddingme · 14/12/2017 18:45

Thanks maisy
Don’t want to hijack thread but the teacher rang me this morning and told me ds must be lying, agreed he was working alone so no one could have possibly tampered with his stuff - then offered me the information that she did - however - have 20 children all giving the same witness statement that ds did X.
I asked her why 20 children were all staring intently enough at ds for a period of time long enough to record his moves instead of focusing on what they should be doing?
Anyway - ds has been moved lessons and HOD department spoke to him and said she knows he’s a hard worker and will do well in current group.

I genuinely believe there’s 2 sides to every story (as well as the third truth!) but also know sometimes teachers are wrong and that to get what’s right you have to go through the right channels calmly!

MaisyPops · 14/12/2017 18:54

Actually,MaisyPops, your whole post is about how parents should take everything their child says about what happened in school with a nice big dollop of salt
No it's not.
It is about being open to the possibility that there is more to the situation than the information you have.

Put it this way, when a member of staff comes to me to complain about someone in my tutor group I don't just take it as the 100% full story and then bollock the child. I am open to the fact that the student may have a different experience or have seen something that the teacher didn't.

So for example, this week a colleague complained and sanctioned a number of my form. I didn't tell then off straught away the equivalent of some parents calling up fuming because 'my child said...'. I spoke to them and what materialised is there's some ring leaders and followers and the rest sit on the fringes because they don't want to stick their head above the parapit. Clearly, this wasn't the case of every child who was reported was being awful. I listened to them abd then went and spoke to thr member of staff and we agreed a way forward. That's a much better outcome than saying 'but Sir says abd Sir wouldn't lie'. Sir hadn't lied or anything maliciously, just with 30 kids it seems he missed a crucial part of thr picture.

If I was to take the view of some parents on here then what i should do is assume the person complaining has the full story and respond accordingly, without bothering to speak to the student.

Much as a certain type of parent dislikes it, people can and do give partial stories abd generally (in my experience) the true and most accurate picture seems to be somewhere in the middle/a combination of both.

It is not calling all children liars to suggest that parents may do well to consider a range of possibilities before kicking off.

MaisyPops · 14/12/2017 18:56

I genuinely believe there’s 2 sides to every story (as well as the third truth!) but also know sometimes teachers are wrong and that to get what’s right you have to go through the right channels calmly!
This ^^
It is so nice to have parents who get this (i think the enranged mob fest can dominate on education threads).

Lizzie48 · 14/12/2017 19:33

*Much as a certain type of parent dislikes it, people can and do give partial stories abd generally (in my experience) the true and most accurate picture seems to be somewhere in the middle/a combination of both.

It is not calling all children liars to suggest that parents may do well to consider a range of possibilities before kicking off.*

This. I agree, Maisy Pops. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. That's something I have learned, and it's always best to hold off until you have the whole picture before getting involved.

MaisyPops · 14/12/2017 19:40

Lizzie48
It often is.

Sometimes teachers miss things or get the wrong end of the stick and need ti have it cleared up.
Sometimes students intentionally/unintentionally give partial stories.

A sensible chat with the correct people usually solves most things.

greenhairymonster · 14/12/2017 19:43

That's true but also sometimes teachers lie too.....

MaisyPops · 14/12/2017 19:48

green
That's exactly why I don't jump straight at students just because 'miss/sir said...'

People are human. Good will and sensible discussion goes a long way to resolving school issues.

greenhairymonster · 14/12/2017 19:55

People are human. Good will and sensible discussion goes a long way to resolving school issues. Amen to that!

seven201 · 14/12/2017 21:49

I'm now a complete push over at letting kids out to use the loo. My current school the kids are mostly very trustworthy so it's not a battle. My response is always 'do you really need to go?' and sometimes the answer is no! My last school however the toilets were locked and there were spreadsheets on the kids who had been let out to use the one open single toilet right by reception, along with the name of the teacher who had been teaching them at the time. Poos were found under the stairs and behind doors! A parent complained I hadn't let her son out to use the loo and this complaint had been sent to a head of year, to my department head then the head before I heard of it. It was me who had to point out that I was only doing what I was told to do. I also had a girl wet herself in my lesson. I felt awful but by that point all toilets were locked and you'd only be allowed the key to the disabled loo if you had a medical card and she didn't. I spent my lunch cleaning up her wee and washing out her tights. Sorry, I've gone off on a tangent. I would absolutely contact her teacher and politely say that your dd is not biologically able to hold a period in!

InternetHoopJumper · 14/12/2017 22:52

OMG, many of these schools sound like an absolute nightmare. Not being able to leave classrooms? Locked toilets? Locked outer doors? What if there was a fire?

What is wrong with these school administrators that they treat children like prisoners? They treat the children like automatons they can't trust. This is precisely the opposite of building up the kids self-esteem and teaching them to trust each other and their teachers.

School is bad enough without this crap. These kind of environments foster bullying and harassing behaviors.

greenhairymonster · 14/12/2017 23:04

We used to have senior prefects who used to be hall monitors.....does this not happen anymore?

Lilmisskittykat · 14/12/2017 23:05

I think those saying hanging on half a hour must be the blessed ones with lighter periods.

I'm not one for complaining but knowing what I went through at school I would absolutely complain about the teacher.

Those who say just go between lessons maybe don't realise that you don't get much change over times between lessons. In my school, toilets during lunch and break times were frequented by the older girls who smoked and hung out in the loos. It was much less stress and more private to go during lessons.

mathanxiety · 15/12/2017 00:34

Maisy
It is about being open to the possibility that there is more to the situation than the information you have.

But you yourself are not open.

You are talking about a one way street - parents should take what their child says with a dollop of salt. You are not prepared to entertain the possibility that a girl might indeed need to go to the loo.

You are admitting that there are teachers who are not equipped with the judgement necessary to handle groups of teens or individual teens though, in your account of other staff treating students badly. Thank you for that.

There are indeed teachers who miss a crucial part of the picture.

Maybe there are parents out there who have had experiences with certain teachers, maybe because older children have had them, or children of friends, and these parents are therefore completely right to trust what their children say about them? Maybe parents know their own children pretty well? Not all parents think the sun shines forth from their children's arses but they still believe their children, and there are legions of teens who are good eggs who have given no cause to their parents to doubt them.

perchi · 15/12/2017 06:37

Isn't this a breach of human rights, to deny people the toilet?

MaisyPops · 15/12/2017 06:56

But you yourself are not open
So me guving examples where I've not taken what a teacher says at face value is me not being open?
Saying that it's worth speaking to everyonr reasonably is being open?
Ok. We have different ideas over what it is to be open.
You are not prepared to entertain the possibility that a girl might indeed need to go to the loo.
But I am... which is why I've said multiple times about how I let students go within schools's policy.

What I am saying (and have been all the way through thr thread) is:

  • some students will need the loo. In my opinion there should br a way for them to go
  • there are those who time waste (more than i think a lot of people on MN realise when they start saying anyone should go any time). So studrnts who arrive straight from break/lunch and ask to go, students who arrive with 1l bottles of water, drink one of those a lesson then ask all the time to go (i don't mond drinks in clas but thunk by teens you should regulate your fluid intake, not say 'i'm bursting for a wee but then spend the 10 mins i've asked you to wait whilst i give instructions necking iver half a litre if water)
  • Schools generally have a policy of staff discretion.
  • but if people keep letting kids out on demand etc thrn what happens is senior leaders say 'clearly we can't trust you to have discretion so we're going to clamp down'

No system involving people working with people is perfect, but I do think there is a healthy middle ground based on tacit judgments, timing and knowing your class when making a decision (which is neither anyone anytime, nor is it a blanket ban).

What bugs me on here is that too often it just becomes too opposite camps not seeing each other's view, when thr reality is that writing policies and procedures for 1700 students and 200 staff is difficult and (although some are rubbish - i've worked with some) most are just doing their best.

InternetHoopJumper · 15/12/2017 12:28

So, maisy, not only are you annoyed when students have to go more often than you deem appropiate, you also don't like students drinking plenty of water (which is actually a healthy thing to do).

I used to go to the bathroom a lot to get away from my bullies, but I guess in your eyes that would have made me a "time-waster." You don't have a lot of empathy in you, do you? To you it seems forever an "us versus them" situation and view your students as "the enemy" to be controlled. I had a teacher like you, who made my first three years of highschool a living hell and deliberately made me a target for bullying. So glad to see nothing has changed and that there are still "teachers" like you around.

MaisyPops · 15/12/2017 18:11

InternetHoopJumper
Dear me, you are intent on goading for a reaction. Hmm sigh. I really lose all patience with people like you who think I had a bad experience at school and now as an adult any teacher who doesn't do what I want must be some bully lacking empathy

  1. I have REPEATEDLY said I let students go
  2. I have REPEATEDLY said I don't like blanket bans
  3. I have REPEATEDLY said that a spot of common sense goes a long way. E.g. knowing your students, considering timing, give me a nod in 5 and i'll say yes, see if you can hang on but let me know if you need it.
  4. I have said I have no issue with students drinking water. (There is a clear difference betweeb having a drink and necking bottles og fizzy water having claimed that you are 'so desperate you are actually going yo burst' and tried to start a debate about human rights and toilets. If you can't see that some take the mick then you are very naive)

I do have an issue with those who time waste, sit necking bottle after bottle of water as those who do that usually spend time messing with the bottle, cracking the bottles, picking labels on bottles and othet such disruptive strategies to avoid working (you see people who want to work avoid have a range of ways abd tend to move between them when one doesn't work)

You may have the silly view that do what you like when you like will work fine and wouldn't be abused but years of experience say it does. I see students arraning to meet because thet know they have certain members of staff who will let them (usually thr samr staff who ignore calls to not let classes out early etc any anything else requiring professional discretion).

Students know I am firm and fair. The time wasters know the answer will be no or yes on certain conditions (boy who cried wolf). Good kids who rarely ask and don't time waste know they'll be let out, though generally not in teaching inputs (but most never ask during main teaching inputs actually). It's amazing how being firm and fair goes a long way with students, including time wasters who actually end up respecting you. It also means that they speak to me about bullying & other personal issues because I am a trust adult, not some joke who tries to be their mate.

But sure, it's always us vs them. I hate my students and love bullying them because for all i havr no empathy it's just so much fun to be evil.

perchi · 15/12/2017 18:43

Didn't know holding everything in makes you a "good kid"?

InternetHoopJumper · 15/12/2017 18:49

No, Maisy I am just pissed off to see the attitudes that were used to make my life miserable in school still persists. I am not just angry at you, but other posters as well. But thanks for accusing me of not arguing in good faith and making light of my bad experiences.