To have finally said something

[Zoozee]

Hi there. I realise this isn't anything major in the grand scheme of things but I'm fed up and need a rant. I have two dd's age 15 and 11 with my Dh and putting it mildly I'm sick to death with my Sil's continuous comments about my youngest dd not being girly.

Basically, my dd is a beautiful young lady, lovely hair, fairly slim and very athletic. She isn't a girly girl at this point and in my opinion this is absolutely fine she is who she is. She is very particular about her clothes and despite the fact she looks great dressed up she is more comfortable wearing leggings over sized sweatshirts, joggers, sports tops etc and I don't see a problem with this. She is always clean her clothes are in good condition and are mostly brands that "fit in" with other kids these days.

What I'm fuming about is my Sil constantly making comments. She's said many times in front of my dd that she's a tom boy and should be playing with boys and that she should start wearing dresses and skirts. That in itself annoyed me but then she went on and on how my nieces (she has 3 dd's) are all wearing stuff from grown up shops and that they wouldn't be seen out wearing leggings and joggers.

Now what she lets her dd's wear is her decision. I personally feel the clothes are really inappropriate for their age ie really really short skirts, boob tunbe style tops, short dresses etc but that's just my opinion and would never dream of saying that to my Sil or my nieces.

Well last night my dd was talking to her cousin online and my neice asked my dd what she'd be wearing over xmas and I think my dd just said oh the usual and that she'd been shopping last week with me and her auntie (my sister). My neice then turned round and said oh so you're just going to turn up at my house in your scruffs like you always do and that she should be wearing something girly and make up. This really upset my dd and she came down all worked up asking what is wrong with what she wears. Well
I'd had enough. I decided to phone my Sil and have a word to ask her to tell me neice to not speak to my dd like that as she's really upset her. My Sil then said well I don't think she's in the wrong she was only speaking the truth. I lost it and said that my dd is 11 not 18 and if she wants to still be a child and not walk around in clothes that show off her backside and chest then that's up to her. Sil has then shouted at me telling me I'm being over sensitive and that she always wants her dd's to look pretty and obviously I don't care what my dd looks like. At that point I slammed the phone down as I really was about to say something I'd regret. I've never even so much as had a crossed word with my Sil before but she imo is completely out of order and my nice horrid. My neice is always having digs at my dd and it's not fair. They're now not speaking to me but my Dh agrees they are out of order. It's the last thing I need a fall out before Christmas but I couldn't sit back any longer and have my dd be the subject of ridicule. Aibu?

You have set a good example and your dad knows you have her back. Carry on as normal with your SIL. If she wants to turn this into an issue that's her problem but if she says anything else about your dad calmly tell her she's out of order and keep repeating until she gets the message.

My DD (also 11) is a very ungirly girl. She wears tracksuits (mostly from the boys athletics sections) and plain t-shirts for school. She spends a lot of time in wetsuits and wears boys long-legged trunks and a rash vest under those for comfort rather than a swimming togs or bikini.

She will wear skinny jeans and has about 2 tops to wear with them for "good wear" - those tops are nice but relatively plain, not pink or sparkly but more primary colours with clear graphics on them. But kinda cool. For various family weddings, she did wear dresses as it was necessary (but shopping for those was kind of hard as she had very specific ideas about what she would wear).

She owns runners, astro boots, studs, hockey boots, hiking boots, snow boots and wellies, and a few pairs of flip flops. She has grown out of the 1 pair of converse boots as her nice shoes. She doesn't possess a pair of leather shoes.

At the same time, she has very long hair (over halfway down her back) that she wants plaited daily (into a single plait, and with a plain elastic bobbin - no clips to catch the strands and no fancy plaits allowed!).

We go on the basis that she wears clean clothes, that fit her, that are suitable for the occasion, and that she is comfortable in. For certain things (eg. family weddings), she knows she must wear a dress (and that the bride chooses it if she has been asked to be a flower girl). And that her hair must be done nicely for such occasions.

She knows that next year, she will need to wear a school uniform (secondary) and leather shoes (but boat shoes/dubarry's are an option in that school so she's accepting those).

She has some friends and cousins who are very very girly. And some who are nearly as tomboyish as herself. She plays with boys and girls equally. Some of her clothes have actually come from girls sections in recent times as the ranges have improved a little (a very little!) but now have some things in more plain pictures or active girl's wear (that is nice for girls but not just pink and sparkly).

Then again, I wear a lot of plain black or brown or navy jumpers over plain trousers for work. I throw on a scarf or necklace sometimes, and makeup when I need to - and there are lots of days I wear dresses too. But she sees that I don't conform to a certain image of girlishness and I am happy that she doesn't either.

Your SIL sounds batshit. Your daughter sounds lovely, and - as another person said upthread - confident in her own skin. I hope SIL's and niece's stupid comments don't shake that.

Don't ever be afraid to stand up for your DD like this.

Who is related to who, by the way? Is she your SIL because she's married to your brother, or is your DH's sister, or what? What do the other members of the family think about SIL's bullying ways?

Most of the girls at my son's school are in leggings & joggers etc. I have seen some of them in "girly" clothing and they look scarily grown up. I'd be keeping mine in practical clothing for as long as I possibly could.

I meant to say as well:

Well done on standing up for your DD, and YADNBU!!!!!

I don't think having a proxy fight through the DCs was the best way to handle this tbh. You support your DD to wear what she wants which is great. Your SIL supports her DDs presumably to wear what they want which matches her parameters.
fwiw my view matches your's rather than your SIL's but you should have dealt with SIL's comments a long time ago. You should have reassured DD that her clothing choices were fine when she was upset by her cousin. And you shouldn't have taken an argument between children as an excuse to cause a fight between adults.

of course YANU.

Your SIL is a fucking idiot and I'd be distancing myself from anyone who spoke to/about my DD's like that.

She has some friends and cousins who are very very girly. And some who are nearly as tomboyish as herself

Not picking on you, Biddy ! But I must just pick up on the 'tomboy' and 'girly girl' labels. I hate them.

These girls aren't any sort of boy or more girl/better girls. They are 'just' girls. Girls who dressing and living their lives in any and all of the ways available to them. Some girls have internalised the gender stereotypes and some girls are less concerned with that and just do what they want.

I agree, that this is precisely why we current have the whole 'gender variance' debarcle; because some people, like your SIL, OP, have got very definite ideas of what being a girl or a boy looks like/is.

You sound like s great mum. SIL on the other hand... not so much!

Your dp should back you up and more important erasure your daughter that she looks great

Reassure

Well done for teaching your daughter there's more for women to do than look pretty.

Good on you but I'd now concentrate on making my dd feel comfortable ignoring others opinions and to feel comfortable shrugging/laughing off, unwanted opinions.
She's always going to come across idiotic people like that in society and an ability to laugh at the stupidity of it all, is an advantage.

I'd not want to make it out to be a big deal to dd - just something that is idiotic and can be easily dealt with, so I'd not apologize to sil but I'd text to say "let's put it all behind us and let everyone be who they want to be" and quickly move on.

Well done for standing up for your DD.

Your SIL sounds like an airhead and a bully, and teaching her DD to be the same.

I wouldn't be keen to spend Christmas with them, but if really must then I would send a text or email in advance saying that all of you, including your DD, will dress in whatever way they are comfortable with and that you expect no further ridiculous comments. If such comments are made then I would consider leaving.

None of my three DDs are the girliest of girls. Particularly DD2, who is 19 now and still lives in tracksuit bottoms and sweatshirts. In fact, she has only ever really worn a skirt because it was required as school uniform. Now she is at college rather than school so wears what she wants to.

We are what we are. Your DD is happy, you love her and are happy - nobody else's business.

She'd love my dd so who won't even wear clothes out of the girls section. She only likes boys clothes and herself and her brother just wear the same clothes. She is 10 in January and I just leave her to it. I sometimes pass comment when I see something I would love to buy her but its like a joke at this stage. She is very pretty though and I sometimes feel a bit sad for her that she feels she needs to wear boys clothes to be herself. She plays on the boys sports teams and is as good if not better than most of them and prefers to play with boys too, her best friend is a boy.

Star I don't disagree with you at all, I'm just trying to explain it in as few words as possible for the thread.

(THis is not meant in a disablist way or anything - trying to explain).
Just as the autistic spectrum has a wide range of difficulties and issues, and levels of ability, from people who are effectively "locked in" to their own world to people who are out doing normal jobs but with some "quirks" in their lives - it's the same for girls in that there are some who are very interested in hair, makeup, appearance and sparkle, while others are very sporty and active and couldn't give a toss what they wear once it functions well for their activity, and lots of different mixes of both along the spectrum. And lots of different styles and interests. Which is what makes the human race so interesting - that we are so different.

What seems to be missing these days for lots of people is a tolerance of those differences and a recognition that everyone is not the same but that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with that.

I've probably not explained that well and I really hope I haven't offended anyone - absolutely none intended (I used the ASD spectrum as I understand that, as DD is on it) - but that is the main gist of what I was trying to say.

You need to spend a lot less time with them all
Your values are very different

(for what its worth I'm with team OP, but even if I was more in SIL's camp, I still think your families are incompatible at this particular stage in your lives)

Biddy Absolutely

What do you wear OP? (I'm always in leggings and comfy jumpers. AFAIC there's no reason that you can't be smart and comfy in them - specially at this time of year.)

If you do decide to meet up at Christmas, can you wear something similar in support of your dd, so that she is not the only one in leggings? In fact, can your dd1 and dh join in too?

YAY @Zoozee, you rock Mamma !
It's so good to hear you have her back, your SIL is a disgrace. Your daughter is still a child, as long as she is happy and comfortable in her own skin, it matters not a jot, what she wears. 🌺🌺🌺

Good on you for saying something! You were sticking up for your DD rightly so as imo what your niece did was bullying! I was like you DD when younger (actually still prefer joggers to dresses anyday) and was on the receiving end of comments like those from my 2 aunties and (girl) cousin on most occasions we saw each other. My mum never said a thing to them because she saw it all as jest but it really knocked my self esteem. So I'm extremely pleased that you stood up to her and told her what's what. If she wants to dress her DC's up like slappers that's her choice, doesn't mean you should do the same - you are letting your DD be herself, be proud of that!

I find it odd that people have said their daughters understand that they 'must wear dresses' for any occasion - why?! And what even is a 'girly girl'? I'm female so whatever I wear is girly by default. The rest is all stereotypes that keep women as objects that have to look pretty to have worth.

OP there's absolutely no fathomable reason why anyone shouldn't wear whatever they want and most fashions are laughable when you look back. Look at the Catwalk FGS! I once played a gig wearing a bin liner and people just thought it was super cool 😎

Your sil clearly judges her own children based on their conformance with a narrow set of damaging stereotypes and they won't thank her for it. I remember once a man at our church saying to me: 'it must be hard for you having a sister that looks like a model' and I still remember it well. Thankfully there are young women like your daughter who can challenger these shallow people.

YY Albadross

Well done for sticking up for DD.

My eldest is all sparkles and pretty things. My youngest can take or leave it. At the most recent birthday party she attended her outfit choice was leggings and a storm trooper T shirt. Her sister looked like something the sugar plum fairy coughed up

Crucially both my girls, like your DD are happy to wear what they want and the reasons they wear it.

Your SIL is rude and you did well to stick up to her.