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AIBU?

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Original poster

Grenfell ex-residents should get a 3-bed house with a garden if that's what they want

999 replies

pingodolcepo · 11/12/2017 08:23

Daily mail outrage that some of the residents are asking for a 3-bed house with a garden. But honestly, they have been through a living hell that was caused by someone else's very bad choices.

There are plenty of people in London that have a 3 bed council house, why can't these people that have dealt with horrors get one also?

I know someone that got a council house in Highgate in the 80s, was a cabbie with a good wage, bought it when offered and sold it a few years ago for over a million and now lives in a fab place with loads of land and a pool in the south of France. If plenty of normal people got houses why can't these poor residents get one? They won't ever be able to afford to buy it due to the high cost of london houses now.

OP posts:
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LoveforPGTipsMonkey · 12/12/2017 17:51

kittens absolutely! not mainly pensioners anymore unless we are talking suburbs/surrey where there MIGHT be a majority.
I'm glad someone who professionally deals with this has posted, there is a lot of naive attitudes here. Of course people (and many foreigners who came on visitor visas and got pregnant all got council flats as the child was born here - this was the case in the 90s for sure and early 200s, I don't know if the law changed since or not).

And of course those who bought their own flat/house and now are private landlords contributed hugely, though I wouldn't say it was a wrong thing to do back then, back in the 90s there wasn't such an absolutely mad price level for property of ALL kinds in the 'not nice' London areas incl the North of K&C.
The rents were much lower, and private buyers people were not keen buying ex-council at all, up to about 2005. But now that it's gone mad, everyone who can, is milking the system. As a result it's an absolute holden tocket to get a house or a good size flat.

HelenaDove · 12/12/2017 17:53

I dont know about London...............but ive seen some shocking attitudes towards disabled tenants elsewhere. Some housing officers obviously think disability is a lifestyle choice.

LoveforPGTipsMonkey · 12/12/2017 17:55

*Of course people used the easy system (second paragraph)

makeourfuture · 12/12/2017 17:55

I cannot express strongly enough how much of a golden ticket a council house in central London is.

It is a sign of a disfunctional housing market. And a sign of constant failed investment in social housing.

HelenaDove · 12/12/2017 17:57

Wonder what the shitty attitudes towards disabled tenants is a sign of.

ChardonnaysPrettySister · 12/12/2017 18:07

I woukd say a council house in any major capital city's very centre is a golden ticket, nothing to do with our 'disfunctional housing market', simple supply and demand.

mothertruck3r · 12/12/2017 18:11

Kitten, Your posts are really interesting. What happens when a tenancy is found to be fraudulent? Do a lot of people lose their tenancy because of fraud and do they have to repay proceeds of crime?

Also, why isn't technology used to pursue subletting. Presumably it is now quite easy to cross reference different databases to establish whether the person who is supposed to be living in a property really is and whether their circumstances are genuinely "in need"?

Good to hear that tenancy fraud actually is being investigated though. How many checks do you do each day if you don't mind me asking?

morningconstitutional2017 · 12/12/2017 18:15

They certainly deserve decent housing which in my view is anything but a tower block. They are monstrosities and no family should be expected
to live in one.

caringcarer · 12/12/2017 18:17

I am sorry for what they have been through but it does not entitle them to jump the queue. They ate demanding 3 bed homes in most expensive area. I could not afford to live there. If they want/need 3 bed accommodation they should accept whatever and wherever is offered. Many of these people are unemployed and tax payer is paying their rent.

kittensinmydinner1 · 12/12/2017 18:17

HelenaDove. Then he would be back home at 12 if he wasn't in at 9.15 .. and if he had taken a diversion and gone shopping (unlikely as his severe disability would make this too difficult) then it would not have been unusual to expect him back by 3:30 surely ? .. and if we came to your house to check the tenancy, and you weren't in - one of your neighbours would probably have recognised your photo on file and pointed at your door.. even if they did not speak English.

Of course the official word if that social housing does not go to people from abroad. It would be impossible for this to happen. The average legitimate wait on a central London social housing list is 8-15yrs. New arrivals haven't been here long enough to work out the 'system'

This doesn't mean they aren't OCCUPIED by persons from abroad.
(See my previous posts from last night and early this morning about how this works)
This is the ONLY way that low paid immigrants and illegal immigrants and all minimum wage workers can afford to even think about being in central London.

Landlords will not rent to 6 or 8 adults . (The number in a 3 bed flat when the sitting room is made into a bedroom). Paying more than £300 a month rent makes working in London uneconomical on minimum wage .
There are some Bedsits around but that is going to be more than £300 a month. This is all about simple maths. People are here from all around the world to earn money. Mostly to send home to family in need. Not because they like the view of the Thames.
This means it's imperative to find a place to live that places as little impact on that earning potential. It's a huge market place. Just take a look on 'Gumtree' and in the shop windows of specialist food suppliers. .. think Eastern European supermarkets.

maygirl27 · 12/12/2017 18:18

No I don't agree. Given the horror of what those poor people went through I think it is reasonable to rehouse in a like for like property. Eg someone in a two bed flat should be rehoused in a two bed property and this should have been done more quickly than it obviously has been done so far.

hauxb001 · 12/12/2017 18:18

A lot of opinion based on speculation rather than initiate knowledge of the full facts :
1 )we don’t know how many of the 150+ waiting on a permanent new home have asked for 3 bed with gardens
2 )we don’t know how many have specifically asked to stay in the borough
3 ) we don’t know what the available housing stock is .

What we do appear to know is that we as a nation are clearly unprepared for emergency mass re housing ....

makeourfuture · 12/12/2017 18:19

I woukd say a council house in any major capital city's very centre is a golden ticket, nothing to do with our 'disfunctional housing market'

You mean to tell me, in one of the richest cities in the world, in one of the riches nations - the centre of world finance (and the recipient of billions and billions in bailouts) - where the towers to commerce scrape the heavens, that they couldn't have shelled out a couple of grand to get the nonflammable panels? Or build some social housing?

And why is it that in 1960 we could build a quarter of a million social housing units and yet can't build one thousand now? With all of our technological advances?

There is nothing free market about the housing market.

Battleax · 12/12/2017 18:19

It's not a "golden ticket" to anyone with MC aspirations, though.

pam290358 · 12/12/2017 18:20

No, they should get whatever is appropriate to their personal circumstances as close to where they lived before. I agree that they have had a horrendous time but that shouldn’t automatically entitle them to whatever they want. What about other people maybe with families already on the waiting list, and what about the bedroom tax for any spare rooms? A tragedy like this should not be used to hold the council to ransom, they have a duty to all residents.

Katherine2626 · 12/12/2017 18:20

Local Authority houses with gardens are like gold dust in London - it would be lovely if everyone could have exactly what they wanted but realistically the local council can't go 'hey presto' and magic ideal homes out of the ether. Having worked for a housing department years ago you realise there is nothing more upsetting to people than living in the wrong kind of home, but the right kind of home often just isn't there, unless you start evicting people! It is sad but you just have to be realistic - houses with gardens are available but not necessarily exactly where you might want to live. What has happened to all the private million pound flats that were bought by K and C? I read that lots of them are still empty.

woodhill · 12/12/2017 18:22

So I think there does need to be harsher penalties for subletters who no longer need the property

Battleax · 12/12/2017 18:24

(Sorry, hit post too soon.)

The almost unique London social housing demographics must have been apparent to anyone with half a brain who followed Grenfell. Not just the striking lack of white faces but the number of residents who were first generation immigrants, as well as the shiftiness around who was who and where they lived.

But part of this is that the aspirational white WC are fleeing London for cities and towns where they might afford to buy.

Guavaf1sh · 12/12/2017 18:27

YABU

FluffyWuffy100 · 12/12/2017 18:27

This is the ONLY way that low paid immigrants and illegal immigrants and all minimum wage workers can afford to even think about being in central London.

Yup you only have to look on gumtree or even spare room to see how you go about getting a bed in a shared room in a flat. Even the more 'respectable' ones will have 4 beds in the largest rooms (like what used to be the sitting room) and that isn't even the 'bed in shed' situation.

Battleax · 12/12/2017 18:29

This is the ONLY way that low paid immigrants and illegal immigrants and all minimum wage workers can afford to even think about being in central London.

Yes, but what's interesting is where the white WC are, and the rapidity of the change, which highlights broader issues with the housing economy. Everything is out of whack, it works against true diversity (by income, occupation, race, nationality or whatever else) and creates ghettoised communities and dead cities.

woodhill · 12/12/2017 18:31

White wc can't afford to have a family

Tapandgo · 12/12/2017 18:34

Solution.
Divide up Buckingham Palace into decent sized flats and get some 3 bed houses built in the gardens. The Windsor family can move into one of their other palaces, the ‘grace and favour’ hangers on can make their own arrangements about buying or renting a flat/house at their own expense like the rest of us have to do.
Job done.

Battleax · 12/12/2017 18:35

Drop in the ocean Tap.

Viviennemary · 12/12/2017 18:39

The whole point of it is that not many people can afford to live in Central London. It's not just the low paid immigrants and illegal immigrants and minimum wage workers that you mention that can't afford it. It's people on reasonable salaries. This country is far too much London London London. And it gets a bit tedious. There is life for everyone outside London.