Fined for taking DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Yes I probably deserve a flaming here. Just received my fine from the council for taking DD out of school to go on holiday.

Which is kind of deserved as I know the rules etc etc.

However, as I have posted on here before. Her sister is very very unwell and has been for a long time. The holiday was thought to be something for her sisters recovery and it was vital my DD went for that for her sisters sake and to get a break herself (although it ended up that she got more ill and nearly didn't go!). Therefore homelife here has been harrowing to say the least for over 2 years now, DD deals with things every day that no child should have to.

AIBU to think the school know this. They know it was extenuating circumstances. They could have authorised it (and in fact her sister's school did).

And while I don't regard my child as a special snowflake I do believe that these things should be assessed on a case by case matter. And in fact I am the only parent to have been fined from the school! Even though many people trot of to Thailand or wherever for two weeks holiday every year!!

I will pay it of course. I'm just hurt that my DD has no help or support at school as she is thought to be coping. And now this.

It wasn't in your OP that you needed to go at a quiet time. So was it clear to your daughter's school that you needed to?

Honestly, playing devil's advocate, I would question why this needed to be in term time.

• you may not have explained about needing a quiet time
• you're not going to like this, but honestly if I were the person asked to authorise based on needing a quiet time, and then I was told it was Disney Florida I'd think: pull the other one. Is there a quiet time at a Disney resort?
• this holiday was planned because your unwell daughter had improved. So, it wasn't a fixed time like before an operation, so it could have waited
• they've been to Disney multiple times so I wouldn't authorise it as particularly special

Honestly, I don't understand why it needed to be in term time, and I expect the school didn't either.

Perhaps I need educating (about crowds at Disney!) but if that's the case, I expect the school did too.

All that said, I'm glad you went (I posted on your thread) and I'm glad there were good moments.

I think it was the right decision to go.

But I don't think the fine is unfair.

Yes, I will second the possibility of schools being able to OK term time holidays in exceptional circumstances.

DS1's school (a primary) allows kids to take term time holidays. Just like that. They OK all of them under "exceptional circumstances". (Not that loads and loads of kids are taken out constantly- it's not a rich area. In 4 years I've taken DS out once, for a week in France in October). The school's reasoning for this is that we live in an area that depends a lot on tourism, so many parents work their hardest in the summer holidays. In addition, we get some kids from the nearby military base, and their parents don't always get leave when they want.

I cannot express how much I love DS1's school.

when you say 'but if we let one we have to let all," Then it beomces a reason not to allow for indivual circumstances

Not at all ... schools can still authorise absence for exceptional circumstances, just as they always have done; the difference is that the previous clause about "up to ten days" was taken out (largely because instead of appreciating that this, too, was only for exceptional reasons, too many parents came to see it as an entitlement)

You can also look at it this way: because of your older daughter's illness, your daughter is impacted yet again, this time in missing school, because of her.

Maybe it's better that your older daughter is forced to go during busier times, than your younger daughter is forced yet again to take the back seat and compromise?

And if the older one simply could not go to Disney at a busier time, then perhaps the compromise should have been a quieter holiday. Rather than younger one being impacted.

I do believe in authorised absences. But I also believe that the reason authorisation is needed is because it's disruptive to miss weeks.

I know this is extreme because it's just one holiday - but imagine a child saying "I missed 2 weeks of school every year to accommodate my sister's illness - I found it disruptive and I wish that yet again her anorexia hadn't been able to control my life".

I don't think it's an easy decision for schools.

i work in a school. currently although we can authorise absence it is ONLY for funerals or immediate family marriage (or some service children where leave is rare). the school may even want to authorise but we aren't allowed to do anything, and it is our local authority who then decide whether or not to fine, not the school itself. Our headteacher is very annoyed as it has taken away her discretion over precisely this kind of extenuating circumstance! I think this sort of thing really should be head's discretion - and I don't blame you at all!

You knew in advance that you would be fined. You booked the holiday anyway. You pay the fine. You move on.

Sorry your DD is ill, that’s really shit.

I think the fines are just not a good idea, and actually this is one for the Daily Mail. Seriously -- get the media on it.

It doesn't help the children with chronic poor attendance whose families are in very hard circumstances and can't or won't get them to school. A few missed days doesn't hurt children academically, most of the time. Schools should have judgement and human judgement should take circumstances, frequency, likely effect on DC, and so on into account. Parents' choices, family needs, etc should be accommodated in a sensible and human way. The system is patronising, often not applied to independent schools (because, you know, it's all fine for the wealthy/upper classes), and I suspect it damages relations between parents and schools more than it solves any problems.

AIBU to think the school know this. They know it was extenuating circumstances. They could have authorised it (and in fact her sister's school did).

No you're not but the school don't make the ultimate decision do they? Isn't it the LA?

I don't agree with taking them out of school but that's my personal opinion HOWEVER saying that, let them take it to court so you can present your case to an impartial 'Panel' for went of a better word. In my experience, (can't say more as outing) they are rarely upheld.

A bit off topic, I know. There is a boy in dds School, who’s been School refusing for two terms now. He’s 9. Idk if there are consequences to the parents. Then I read your story and think how crazy the system is.

I wish these rules were made for individual children's benefit but I don't believe for a second that they are.

My mum was fined for taking my sisters away earlier this year. They only missed 4 days of school, but was fined £60 each (so £120)

Their dads didn't have to pay £60 though so I assume it's just for who went?

She's probably going to get fined again next year as she's taking them out a week before half term for a 2 week holiday.. it's ridiculous because it's cheaper for her to go for 2 weeks (1 of the weeks is half term) than it would be just half term!

Very concerning that a 9 year old is refusing school. Theres got to be a reason for that. I hope the school and his parents are looking into it.

Lots of schools and headteachers aren't doing this just because they can! 'Schools aren't just about targets' is all fine and well in theory and I'm glad there are some very lucky schools who have the choice to fo what they want, but in our LEA, and from the government, the schools are run that way because they have to be. County and welfare officers are on our backs 24-7. Registers are scrutinised, decisions are challenged. All decisions. Logs are made. Believe me, a lot of headteachers have no option to be able to be as caring as they want to be

Awwlook
I totally agree. Outsider looking in part of it is because he’s always been treated like a mini adult and not a child and been allowed to make too many decisions. Not going to School means he doesn’t get to be with kids hardly ever unless the family get with homeschooler crowds but homeschooling isn’t the goal. So unfortunately kid is isolating himself. I had some issues with dd like finding difficulty going to school when she was younger, lots of anxiety and we paid a child psychologist for a while. It was money well spent.

I've been the parent of a 10 year old school refuser. Please make no assumptions about the child or the parents. It's normally anxiety driven. I had an EWO visit my house and I asked her what exactly they expected me to do my child was in such a bad state mental health wise he was trying to kill himself. I took the EWO with me to the headmaster and schools do have coding options in these circumstances to avoid fining parents.

My child has now had the anxiety addressed and has successfully integrated back into school. It has taken patience and love and understanding that he wasn't 'REFUSING' by choice and being naughty but was anxious.

As a parent it is the single most isolating experience. You are judged by other parents and by the school for not getting your child to school. But in my son's case I just could not at that time for the sake of his health.

My son did not attend school at all for 6 months and was home and hospital tutored for most of that time.

Its about trust. the govt doesn't trust teachers so it puts all sorts of bean counters in place and calls them "standards" "monitoring" and "targets"

anyone with an ounce of commonsense who also may have read the ops original post about the holiday, could see that as a family they needed to do this. out of season, not to save money but because of the huge number of mental health issues she is battling with her DD.

I don't care who gets the fines. they are pointless, absolutely pointless. they achieve nothing.

the parents that can afford the fine, take the holiday and take the hit.

the parents that cant, don't.

the parents who couldn't give a toss whether little jonny misses one day a week because he has a cough, sore toe etc are the same parents who send him in with no breakfast, don't help him with his homework and also send him in late every morning. these numbers remain completely unchanged by the introduction of this legislation.

its about soaking people of money. same as charging for parking at hospitals. its an absolute con and we are all just going along with it because some smartass from the D for E has a graph that shows absences down.

what fine do the LEA give to the parents when teachers go on strike and parents have to find additional child care?

what fine do schools/LEA pay when lessons aren't covered properly due to shortages and kids miss out on their education.

we are being conned.

taratill
I do appreciate it’s anxiety induced as it was with my dd. Being given too much responsibility is anxiety inducing. The parents are very engaged with him and he just doesn’t know how to interact with other kids. He hasn’t had much exposure to them. It must be very tough for him to try to fit in and he’s decided to walk away to protect himself. I feel sorry for him actually. I don’t think he woke up one day and said he felt like being naughty.

It is really good to know that you weren’t fined for this but I still think it’s really wrong the op was. Each absence was for mental health reasons.

I’m actually very concerned for his wellbeing even if it didn’t come across in my post. I really want him to come back to school and find his place there and it is reassuring that you have a child, who managed this. So I’m sorry if you were offended. My exasperation perhaps came across as dismissiveness.

mummyof
not to be rude but how on earth do you know what goes on behind that child's closed doors? I'm willing to bet that some people may have thought i gave DS too much control too! It is very easy to cast aspersions on a situation that you cannot possibly know anything about.

I'm just saying that you have no place to judge other peoples personal lives.

I'm sorry OP was fined but and yes both situations involve mental health but your post came across judgemental to school refusers with the implication being that their families should be fined when that would do absolutely nothing to assist the child to return to school.

My DS has autism, could it possibly be that the child you are talking about has issues with social relationships, which may or may not be diagnosed yet? If that is the case then it is quite possible that he will find it easier to interact with his parents than his peers.
I'm sorry if I seem to be going on but your post has really really touched a nerve.

taratill - fining middle class parents who can afford it when they go on holiday and dissuading the less well off not to have a holiday at all (because for some its either go out of peak season or not at all) has been done to create a smokescreen. so that the real issues of school refusers and useless parenting - which are two separate and very distinct issues can be hidden.

Instead of asking head teachers to fill in umpteen forms for stats on attendance, why not free up the heads time so that he/she can spend it engaging with your family and others like you and working towards getting your child into school regularly.

instead of lea's collecting, collating and passing on these useless stats why not free up their time so that they can support the head teachers. and use the money to employ staff that can actually support families and make a difference.

too many govts go for quick wins and its bonkers.

by having the fines it LOOKS like they are doing something when actually they are not.

The schools do try to deal with children with persistent absence, what on earth makes anyone think that they don't?

They don't always deal with it well because the tendency is to punish rather than address the cause but that's another issue!

I agree that holiday fines are ridiculous too BTW.

You didn't need to go to florida, there are numerous places that remain quiet in the school holidays especially if you go in half term etc.

You broke the rules so got issued with a fine. Just pay and class it as part of the holiday costs. What you saved by gong in term time will more than cover it and if you can afford Florida you can afford the fine.

Head teachers have very limited things they can authorise holidays for and this wouldn't have been one of them.

Yellow many very sick children go on holiday to Florida. The holiday was not funded by the op.