Fined for taking DD on holiday

[Strawberryshortcake40]

Yes I probably deserve a flaming here. Just received my fine from the council for taking DD out of school to go on holiday.

Which is kind of deserved as I know the rules etc etc.

However, as I have posted on here before. Her sister is very very unwell and has been for a long time. The holiday was thought to be something for her sisters recovery and it was vital my DD went for that for her sisters sake and to get a break herself (although it ended up that she got more ill and nearly didn't go!). Therefore homelife here has been harrowing to say the least for over 2 years now, DD deals with things every day that no child should have to.

AIBU to think the school know this. They know it was extenuating circumstances. They could have authorised it (and in fact her sister's school did).

And while I don't regard my child as a special snowflake I do believe that these things should be assessed on a case by case matter. And in fact I am the only parent to have been fined from the school! Even though many people trot of to Thailand or wherever for two weeks holiday every year!!

I will pay it of course. I'm just hurt that my DD has no help or support at school as she is thought to be coping. And now this.

Honestly good for you. Sometimes personal and family things are more important than a couple of days at school. Appeal the fine if you can. I think it's terrible you're the kind of parent who ends up being fined and not the parents of the kids who patently have no disclipline or respect at all!

I’m so sorry that your DDs school have been so shit. In anybody’s world (except maybe a megalomaniac headteacher with no grip on reality) would have authorised that- unfortunately there seems to be a lack of common sense in these things. You sound like you’re in need of much support and I can understand how you must feel it must seem like someone has gone out of their way to be unsupportive. Personally I would appeal the fine and tell the head that you are very disappointed that they are not interested in the wholistic welfare of your child (which goes far beyond formal education) and you hope if their family was experiencing such a crisis people are more supportive of them (potentially if just say this in my head). Maybe write off the head as a sad individual and thank heavens you have more compassion and move on. If you want to do it again I’d lie to school.

It's so exasperating, the way schools often seem to provide support, and then when this support enables a child to cope, they promptly remove it on the grounds the child is doing well enough not to need it. It's like saying someone no longer needs to take the pill, because they aren't getting pregnant.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. I'm really sorry the school are so unsupportive of your DD's position.

wishingandwaiting RTFT.

Strawberryshortcake40 Fri 08-Dec-17 11:28:37
How much I've saved? That was never a consideration, we couldn't go in the holidays because of the crowds. And the holiday wasn't funded by me so I didn't save anything.

I will never understand why people comment on things they don't have time to read. Obviously I understand that part - we all have lives, we're all busy. But if a poster is too busy to read someone's words, why comment on them?

OP - here is the previous thread about the holiday in case you couldn't find it, lots of people asking if it went ok.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3082971-To-not-take-DD-on-holiday

Another one here who'd have hoped the HT would authorise the absence in these particular circumstances. The problem, of course, is that they know perfectly well this would lead to a rash of demands on behalf of pupils who'd actually suffered nothing much at all

On balance I agree with the PP who said to just pay the £60 and regard it as a holiday expense

I’m sure parental responsibility is deemed when you register the birth of a child. If you were married at the time of DDs birth and he is on the birth certificate then he will have perental responsibility (unless you have been to court to remove it and won the case)

I remember your thread originally about if you should take older DD as she had lost weight. I do think it is really shit of the school but maybe it’s not deemed as exceptional circumstances as it’s not an ill parent. I do sympathise though as your DD definitely needed the holiday for her own well being. Maybe try and get the support back in place at school for her

The school don’t fine you.

The council do.

The school don’t see that money.

All the school does is report attendance/non attendance figures.

A friend of mine is a school governor. They are taken to task by ofsted and by local authorities if they have authorised absences, so they never authorise term time holidays. If you start doing it for the odd one here and there who has a genuinely strong reason for it, like yourself, then other people will try to set it as a precedent. That may seem harsh but I can understand the schools' position on this. Which is not to say I don't have sympathy with your situation, I think the system sucks, but all I am saying is that the school's hands may be more tied than you think.

What I really don't like is the fact that some schools will informally tell some parents to ring in sing instead. What the hell kind of example is that setting to the kids for gods sake?! If you don't like the rules, lie to get around them?! Argh!

We have a range of issues with some of our children as such dd yr 10 and her brother yr9 weren't authorised to be on holiday for a week but they also didn't report it.

So it can be got round if the school are supportive.

As an aside can your younger DD be registered as a young carer one of my children is as his brother was diagnosed with asd. It means he gets trips away or days out and it provides a rest for him where he is out of the situation.

So presumably you wouldn't be able to go anywhere in non term time because of crowds?

And this is a recognised effect of your oldest one's illness?
So then when are you supposed to have a family holiday?

Just received my fine from the council for taking DD out of school to go on holiday.

Everyone having a go at the school please read this sentence from the OP. Schools in the UK CANNOT fine parents, only the local authority can make that decision.

I think the unfairness of it all is that the rules about fines don't apply to all counties/school's. I and other parents in my child's school have been taking term time holidays since the fines were introduced and they have always been unauthorised but neither myself or any other parent that I know of has been fined.

Either fine everyone or no one.

I know this isn't the OP's problem, but it's also worth remembering that schools are judged on pupil absence by the LEA, Ofsted and more ... all of whom will come down on them like a ton of bricks if "the figures" aren't what they want to see

And all of it because too many parents were perceived to be taking the p**s, which is what led to the rule change in the first place

wishing "It is fining you for taking your child out of school in term time. You could have gone on a much cheaper holiday during the holidays and the school would not have done a thing. You chose a particular kind of holiday and the only way you could have afforded that type of holiday was to take your dd out it school therefore you have to accept the consequences of that."

It's not about money. You don't appear to know what it is about.

Everyone having a go at the school please read this sentence from the OP. Schools in the UK CANNOT fine parents, only the local authority can make that decision.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. The school has the power to decide to allow the absence or not. They authorise at will. If they don't authorise it, then the head reports the parent(s) to the council, who have no flexibility here, but must levy the fine automatically. The parents can then appeal, but as the OP has said, there is a risk in doing so.

The fact it comes from the council doesn't give that council decision making powers. The school, or more specifically the head, is the one in the driving seat.

I agree with Iwanttobe8stoneagain "You sound like you’re in need of much support and I can understand how you must feel it must seem like someone has gone out of their way to be unsupportive."

I think I may pay the fine but then appeal it.

And yes, "... tell the head that you are very disappointed that they are not interested in the wholistic welfare of your child (which goes far beyond formal education)"

TheVoiceOfTreason

"They are taken to task by ofsted and by local authorities if they have authorised absences, so they never authorise term time holidays." Maybe teacher and head teachers should organise to get back some of their authority. Ofsted are fairly shit in my book and no idea why they call all the shots.

"If you start doing it for the odd one here and there who has a genuinely strong reason for it, like yourself, then other people will try to set it as a precedent." That's not necessaruly true and even if parents do, so what, the whole point is you don't need to give into the all. We got authorised half day for a genuione reason. I am pleased, it has reassrued me school do understand. So what if I take my kid out of a school for half a day! In the grand scememe it matter not one bloody jot. But when you say 'but if we let one we have to let all," Then it beomces a reason not to allow for indivual circumstances. Which do vary and which do impact.

Goodday "Schools in the UK CANNOT fine parents, only the local authority can make that decision." But presumably as schools can (or at least our school can) authorize leave so if they fail to authorize leave then the parent/s take the child away (in a case like this) and then are fined, and the school could have authorized the leave, and chose not to, they are responsible for he fine even if they do not administer it. No?

Cross posted pretty much exact thought with perfectstorm. Spooky!

I know this isn't the OP's problem, but it's also worth remembering that schools are judged on pupil absence by the LEA, Ofsted and more ... all of whom will come down on them like a ton of bricks if "the figures" aren't what they want to see

This, though, is completely true. It's a key OFSTED indicator and no head can afford to be blase about attendance rates.

Having said that, exceptional circumstances clauses exist for a reason. This seems really mean.

I want to live in a society where schools attend to the real and important needs of their pupils and not some sort of cookie cutter system where one size fits all. I pay taxes and vote and I doubt I am alone in thinking that the needs of the OP her children are more important that Ofsted's shenanigans!

School can't authorise holidays but they don't have to report for a fine either, some schools aren't clear on this and they may think that they had to report it.

I took my kids on holiday in term time last year, it was 'agreed' at a multi agency SEN meeting for my eldest but not authorised and I wasn't fined for her or for her two sisters.

I'm sorry your daughter's school haven't been able to work this out properly.

They didn't actually advise you correctly there. Heads can authorise brief absences in exceptional circumstances. What they can't do is authorise flexi-schooling anymore, so maybe the school were themselves confused on that? There's a fair bit of guidance online on all of this (DS is home educated and I am working with a couple of schools to try to arrange a flexi arrangement instead, and they are being so helpful, as, in fairness, are the LA under the existing rules, so it's something I am researching).

The school should certainly have been more supportive of their pupils home life, regardless of the poorly one not going to that particular school.I think it's awful that the head didn't allow this little family holiday in view of the circumstances. Where's the empathy, schools shouldn't always be about targets.

Shame on that head teacher who chose to ignore the huge extenuating circumstances. I wish all the best for your DD op, i hope things improve for her.

There's a handy document on some random school's website setting out the policy in Berkshire, here.