Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why MN is so left wing/liberal?

654 replies

cdvegan2023 · 06/12/2017 16:41

MN hates Brexit, the tories, pink toys, violent video games... you get the idea. But in real life most women don't mind buying gender specific toys/clothes and the election/brexit female vote was about 50/50. So what makes this place 90% lefty/lib when general society is either split or completely reversed? Confused

OP posts:
Mrsorganmorgan · 08/12/2017 19:16

I am 73 years old. I voted Remain and many of my friends and family did. Corbyn gives me the creeps. I remember the old days of Labour - never again!

I worked for a Europian funded Development Partnership in a South Wales mining valley when the mines closed - £1million pounds. At the time the biggest employer in the valley was the Spar.

They ended up with a community bus.

I am Welsh and surprisingly we actually (some of us) have a brain

I wouldn't vote for any of them.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/12/2017 19:18

missy

No I definitely think subject meant pro suffering

shhhfastasleep · 08/12/2017 19:22

Thank you MrsOrganMorgan (fab user name). Getting a bit fed up of posters assuming it was the older voter wot did it. All the Leave voters I know are under 40.
And yes, Corbyn's crew are very reminiscent of 70s/80s Labour. Horrifying bunch.

mothertruck3r · 08/12/2017 19:24

Those that think Mumsnet has become more right wing, why do you think that has happened?

Mrsorganmorgan · 08/12/2017 19:25

shhhhefastasleep I think I got that wrong - sorry if I did.

I spoke to a 20 year old woman in a shop on the day of voting - she could'nt be bothered to vote.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

makeourfuture · 08/12/2017 19:27

Getting a bit fed up of posters assuming it was the older voter wot did it

A far greater percentage of older voters voted leave than younger.

Mrsorganmorgan · 08/12/2017 19:27

And I live quite near to where Dylan Thomas was born - we have a dog of the same name!

GoingIn · 08/12/2017 19:33

Maybe today's youngsters will feel the same way about tories as Shh and Mrsorgan feel about labour party of 40 years ago.

Anatidae · 08/12/2017 19:33

A 23 week old is not capable of independent survival - being born alive is not the same as viability.

Secondly, if we give the foetus the same rights as the mother we reduce women to vessels with no rights and that CANNOT happen.
Take organ donation - it’s the same as saying to you ‘bob needs a kidney. You have a healthy kidney, I WILL take it so Bob lives.’ But it’s my body! Tough. Bob needs a kidney. Bob is more important than you.

Abortion doesn’t happen for fun. It’s the lesser of two unpleasant situations. Late abortions past 18 weeks are VERY rare and ironically almost 100% of them are very much wanted babies who have been diagnosed with conditions incompatible with life or in situations where birth would kill the mother.
Look at the statistics - late abortion is a tiny percentage and the reasons for it are almost never ‘I don’t want a baby’ - it’s ‘my very loved and wanted baby has anencephaly/Edwards syndrome/ etc etc.’

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 19:44

Yes a baby can and has survived at 23 weeks... the current law allows babies upto 24 week to be aborted, later in circumstances you mention upto birth. This includes minor defects such as cleft palate and club foot. The law is archaic and needs updating to represent the fact the foetus is not a "blob" of cells.

GoingIn · 08/12/2017 19:48

Missy, the chances of a baby surviving at 23 weeks are extremely low.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 19:48

just type in baby born 23 weeks... I don't know how it can be allowed to abort a baby so far advanced.
I don't get how medical staff can fight to save the life of a 24 week old but kill by dismembering another woman's child.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 19:49

The chances are low, but now much improved because of medical advances. It's still a human being to me either way.

shhhfastasleep · 08/12/2017 19:50

Dunno about MrsO but I remember and hate Thatcher Tories from the 80s. They got away with it, partly because Labour was up its own arse with unelectable shite. It breaks my heart to see Labour now disappearing up its own arse with the same unelectable shite that gives this hopeless government a free pass. And I remember how they got unelectable, peddling shite in the 70s when I was a kid when they were in government.
Please can someone pull us back to centre ground.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 19:54

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boom-in-survival-rates-for-babies-born-at-23-weeks-xnqtx3wgx

This article says upto 70% of babies born at 23 week are surviving in some hospitals.

toconclude · 08/12/2017 19:55

"The first ever lecture we had was on the failings of democracy for pete's sake. There's an agenda, and I don't care who thinks I'm mad for saying it."

Everyone I have ever met who thinks there are faults with democracy is super right wing. Also lol at 'right wingers are rebellious individuals thinking for themselves and leftwingers aren't'. Suuuure.

Mrsorganmorgan · 08/12/2017 19:55

We will never have a perfect world. I remember the Cuban crisis. I was in college and thought I had days to live.

So many clever people on this site - and really I am a bit old to be here, but I have learned so much. You may not see it but you (plural) are a very kind and caring community.

I think the world is safe in your (plural) hands.

BertrandRussell · 08/12/2017 20:02

"This article says upto 70% of babies born at 23 week are surviving in some hospitals."
The overwhelming number of those terminated at this stage wouldn't survive though, or would survive with catastrophic disabilities. Hence the termination.

GoingIn · 08/12/2017 20:07

I would like a more centrist approach as that would mean current government policies moving much more towards left. I like the coalition system favoured in some other european countries, at least it forces some form of centrism.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 20:09

They are surviving though.. it proves that they are not innate blob of cells they are humans. Just because a person needs medical intervention at some point in their life to help them survive (can happen to any of us at any stage of life) doesn't make them less human or deserving of life

Anatidae · 08/12/2017 20:09

This article says upto 70% of babies born at 23 week are surviving in some hospitals.

Yes. IN hospitals. They are not capable of independent survival. They need painful, constant intervention. Incubators, special care. Massive intervention. They suffer. Putting lines into such a tiny body causes them pain. It’s amazing that we can keep them alive - and I’m sure the limit of survival will be pushed back and back as technology improves. But not one of those babies could survive outside that environment and they have a huge chance of lifelong complications. Deafness, blindness, CP. multiple complex issues.

But frankly, whether they can or can’t survive doesn’t change the fact that the woman’s bodily autonomy trumps that of the foetus. Every time. Because the alternative is that women have no rights over their body. Think about what would happen if it was the other way around. Women would become vessels. No rights over their body.

The vast majority of abortions are done before 18weeks. Late term is rare and virtually every case is a wanted baby, a tragic diagnosis and heartbroken parents. The stats bear this out.

No one is having abortions for fun. The dilation and abortion procedure you refer to is not used unless there is a significant reason to and it’s used in a fraction of a percent of all abortions (0.2%) in the USA. Again, generally for reasons of severe and present danger to the mother or an illness incompatible with life in the foetus.

Club foot and cleft palate some are almost never used as a reason - both can and often do coexist with severe abnormality in The foetus so it’s more of an administrative label than a concrete reason. Cleft lip for example is a failure of the face to form and fuse - there are often underlying issues with the brain as well - such as holoprosencephaly.

BertrandRussell · 08/12/2017 20:18

Late terminations are almost always because the baby has a condition that is either incompatible with life of which would mean significant disability. Unless you are completely anti choice then termination must be available.

Missymoo100 · 08/12/2017 20:27

I'm mindful we're going off topic here but d&c applies to all abortions 15 week plus, vacuum abortion upto 14 week. The foetus has its limbs removed and head crushed in any order and removed piece by piece- that's the standard procedure. Are you referring to a partial birth abortion at 0.2%
As I said just because they need support to live doesn't mean they don't deserve to live. That's like saying anyone in life support doesn't have right to live when of course they do.
Bodily autonomy is an something I don't buy- no one has complete autonomy- we don't have euthanasia, you can't consent to being assaulted where serious injury is caused, instances in law where you don't have autonomy. Right to life to me is the most important right.

pointythings · 08/12/2017 20:45

Missy your descriptions of what late term abortion is do not tally with what really happens. You forgot to mention that it is usual for the baby to be injected with medication that stops its heart. You make it sound as if it is dismembered alive. Typical pro-life distortions.

And as someone who has a friend who had a late term abortion (26 weeks) due to a genetic condition incompatible with life, I will fight to the end to ensure that women like her can always, always end their pregnancy. Because condemning a women to giving birth and then watching her much-wanted baby die is not being pro life.