That Britain should rethink BREXIT

[WallisofWindsor]

David Davis admitting that the impact of Brexit will be equal to the credit crunch should surely make the country revisit the decision.
Why put your country through such a difficult period?

Sorry, to expand on my - I love you all. Well, most of you anyway. These Brexit threads have been really interesting.

I'm glad to (for a change) have the opportunity to be relatively impressed by what my government is doing, and although I personally am a bit worried about Irish/UK trade (dh's job may well be affected badly), I know that for a lot of people in the UK these times are worrying. I have lot of sympathy for those adversely affected

I'm also increasingly disgusted (and I don't use that word lightly) by the many I've noticed recently who have voted for Brexit and immediately gone out and applied for Irish and other EU passports. They themselves were "immigrants" at one point but are happy to demonstrate the selfish "I got in, now what can I do to ensure no-one else can" attitude.

These Brexit threads have been really interesting

This has (at least for the most part) so far turned out to be one of the best ones, plenty of exchanging views and mostly polite disagreement. I've enjoyed taking part in this one. Had some interesting exchanges with people who strongly disagree with me, but it's remained civil. Which is nice. Although it still has plenty of room left to turn into a slanging match, some have already tried but have mostly failed because inflammatory garbage has been ignored by both sides. A refreshing change.

Oh we love you too btw :)

The EU wasting money and doing more harm than good in Lebanon.

www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/how-corruption-and-complicity-threaten-lebanon-s-marine-life-1.79817

@LaurieMarlow, what an excellent post.

mothertruck I have sympathy for your situation, but your argument doesn't stack up.

It's well documented that areas with the most immigration are the most pro immigration, not the other way around. Our own government are responsible for the lax employment laws that make this country so attractive to immigrants, not the EU.

As has been pointed out the poor suffer the most when the country is in economic decline. As we lose our passporting rights in the city, the financial sector goes with it taking an enormous amount of tax revenue out of the system, directly impacting social services and the NHS.

It's comforting to blame 'the other' for what's wrong with our society, but in this case that blame is totally misproportioned and will cost us dearly.

And the vast majority of people in London live in shoeboxes not big houses.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

So what's your opinion of Boston with 75% leave vote, and iirc the immigration data that is cited is from 2011?

Yes please - let's all go out and place our votes for a Revisitation - obviously a new democratic process/'concept' that has passed me by.

Vitalogy aside from the fact that that article concerns a country outside of the EU, do you really think that Boris Johnson has a better chance of resolving this issue on his own, rather than through the collective efforts of the 28 EU member states? In fact, when you think about it, this is a perfect example of why the UK should stay in the EU if we want to resolve these issues. The EU has succeeded in creating higher Europe wide environmental standards that individual nation states would be able to achieve alone.

aside from the fact that that article concerns a country outside of the EU I know, that was the main point I was trying to make.

Well at the rate the talks are going it seems like we may never actually arrive at a final separation (God I hope so!) Alternatively, some EU have said that there is the possibility of rejoining in the future perhaps (although I'm pretty sure France would object).

After all the reason the Leave vote prevailed was due to the incredibly high voter turnout of the over 65 year olds (85% turn out) and in twenty years they'll all be dead. Twenty years of being increasingly irrelevant and bullied by nations like the USA, public sentiment may be very pro-EU.

Eh Vitalogy? Thought this thread was about Brexit?

rainbunny won't everyone be dead at some point?

I understand that it is the preserve of the young to know more than their predecessors but that doesn't make all older people ignorant fuckwits - just waiting to die intent on destroying the earth , democracy and all that is good for anyone that has the audacity to be younger than them.

I certainly don't think that the old are less intelligent than the young but as the Brexit result showed, older voters had very different views on the EU to younger voters and they turned out in droves to vote (good for them). I still think public opinion will be much more pro-EU in twenty years if Brexit goes through, especially if means leaving the custom union and single market as PM May is asserting! Today's 40+ year olds will be future 65+ year olds - only they will have lived through the next twenty years of life outside the EU.

Thought this thread was about Brexit? EU spending is relevant to the discussion.

Vitalogy if your point is about EU spending, then I could point you towards many similar instances where the UK government has not covered itself in glory (see Panorama programme this week about UK funding of Syrian free police, where funds went astray to terrorists). These projects, even when they go wrong, are well intentioned and where there are problems, it doesn't necessarily mean we should give up trying altogether.

And before you say "but we had a choice over UK government funding" all of the EU projects are agreed following scrutiny by the member states through the European Council and of course by the European Parliament through MEPs. And if individuals like you or I wish to make complaints we can do so through our MEP, through direct complaints to the EU institutions, or example to the EU Ombudsman. Or, which is most common, via the NGOs which are active in those particular project areas and well represented in Brussels.

As far as the UK is concerned, 1.5 million people is not a lot. It's 0.02 of the population. Yes this includes children, who can't of course vote, but they will certainly be affected by the result. We really want to take a step completely unprepared into the unknown because a slight margin thought it was a good idea, but what the exact idea was no one spelt out to them? With perhaps the most incompetent lying bunch of politicians that I have seen in many a long year?

After all the reason the Leave vote prevailed was due to the incredibly high voter turnout of the over 65 year olds (85% turn out) and in twenty years they'll all be dead.

I was 65 then, but I hope I might still be alive in 20 years time! I voted Remain however.

Thought this thread was about Brexit? EU spending is relevant to the discussion.

This is where I really don't understand anti-EU people. You are complaining that the EU spent money on an initiative that didn't go well?

The UK, to our credit, spends lots of money on foreign aid budgets. It's actually one of the things that makes me personally most proud to be British.

So why do you think leaving the EU means we will stop spending the money? Or do you think that we will turn into a miserly nation who won't help anyone else? Personally I don't - the amount we raise in a crisis shows that as a country we do want to help and donate.

And yes money gets spent in a way perhaps people don't want it to -
and we get some oh-so-funny headlines about Nigerian Spice Girls, but that is UK money so what do you think will be different when we leave the EU? Or is it just you would prefer the 'wasted' money to only come from the UK's coffers because then we'll have sovereignty over where it goes?!

Are people still rolling out those lazy old tropes about Remain voters being metropolitan elites who live in North London, earn mega bucks, have nannies, etc. etc.? And urging us to understand the Leave voters? Why this obsession with acting as though the Leave voters are the one who are being hard done by? They're getting what they want! It reminds me of all those indulgent articles in the NYT about poor little Trump voters in the Rust Belt whereas in actual fact the average Trump voter earns over $70,000.

I live in Scotland, earn £22,000, have never employed a nanny, do not expect to ever employ a nanny. Do not consider myself in any way a metropolitan elite. And from where I'm sitting a lot of those in charge of this Brexit mess seem to be the metropolitan elite...

So please, move on from the lazy clichés.

Yup poor old Farage, Johnson, Gove, Fox, Davis, Redwood, IDS. None of whom have two halfpennies to rub together......

It looks like they are having another go this morning.

It would be interesting to know what was said/promised at last night's meetings.

Statement live now

"The rights of EU citizens living in the United Kingdom and United Kingdom citizens in the EU27 will remain the same after the United Kingdom has left the EU."

Yay!

Yay to citizen protection I mean. Not to the overall omnishambles.

Yay to citizen protection I mean

Yes. A lot of people have been very worried.