Shocked at colleague vaping in the office

[dazedandconfused2016]

Just that really. I think it's selfish, irresponsible and rude.

I work in several offices as I'm freelance, thankfully not very often at this particular workplace. I know that vaping is banned in another department of the same company so one would assume the ban applies throughout all departments.

Obviously the rest of the team are turning a blind eye to it. Perhaps because the individual concerned has a level of seniority.

I do not accept that vaping is "safe". Too little is known about it to say that definitively. In fact, some studies have indicated that there are health risks associated with vaping:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaping-with-nicotine-is-heart-risk-r5tfssgt7

www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping

Of course, some might say that if I don't like it I could stop accepting work from that employer but I imagine that I will be confronted by the same problem at other workplaces.

When it comes to public health, even in private places, I prefer a practical approach. That makes no sense in this, or any other context though!

Many things we live with daily cause known, measurable health issues. They are not banned and here you are talking about banning anything new until it is proven to be non harmful.

I'll say it again, it is impossible to prove a negative, and that s before you throw in your weird caveat, that things should remain banned in case future research shows them to be harmful.

You'd need to live your whole life in splendid, germ free, total isolation for that to be possible. And even then it is possible the material your bubble is made out of could be poisoning you, using your logic!

remember at one point smoking was encouraged and was all good tons of health benefits.

I would prefer it to be treated the same as smoking until a time when we know the long term effects of it.

(it took 20-30 years for truly deadly symptoms of smoking to become mainstream).

I am talking about banning it in proximity to people who would have no choice but to inhale it - not making it illegal, as you somehow seem to have extrapolated from nowhere.

There is enough research NOW to show that it might be harmful. That distinguishes it from a substance such as water, or bubbles.

People are clearly dissatisfied with it. There is no benefit to it for non smokers. Yet you want to force it on them. It's a very weird angle to take.

As may have already been posted there are UK government guidelines to help employers and venue owners produce their own vaping policies. The gist is that vaping is not covered by smoke free legislation, there is no evidence of harm that would justify a ban, supporting smokers to quit by making vaping more convenient and emphasising the difference between vaping and smoking is good for public health, but that there may be other reasons a particular venue or workplace might choose to disallow vaping (image, ettiquette, child-friendly venue etc.) The important thing is that policies should be evidence based.

Nicotine is not a carcinogen. There is a very good discussion of all the evidence on this in RCP's Nicotine Without Smoke report (chapter 4). Even if nicotine were a carcinogen, that would be something for vapers themselves to be concerned about as ecigs 'release negligible levels of nicotine into ambient air with no identified health risks to bystanders. (Public Health England - E-cigarettes: an evidence update (pp 64-65)).

How on earth does someone manage to go through a science degree and still believe it is possible to prove anything at all 'safe'?

Mmm! "measured indoors", yep! Pretty sure I only namechecked a study that looked at the harm on enclosed spaces, this trying to keep to the parameters of your stated objection, Rebecca.

And you are STILL insisting that science pulls a hat out of the rabbit!

It is par for the course in this post-truth era.

I'm absolutely gobsmacked that you can use that phrase whilst agreeing with people posting anti-intellectual and anti-science arguments for which you have no such criticism. Post truth indeed, I feel like I could be conversing with the Donald himself.

By the way, you never addressed my response to you which pointed out how and why you misinterpreted my position re Mills. I assumed it was a genuine mistake but by ignoring it you give the impression that you deliberately misrepresented me.

not making it illegal, as you somehow seem to have extrapolated from nowhere Ooh! I missed that! Who else has used the word illegal? You said ban, I said ban... where did illegal come from?

Ah, you extrapolated it

Sorry but this thread continues to make me laugh.

If your working conditions are so good that the only negative some can fixate on is a bit of water vapour in the air in their office, I would say you are doing alright in terms of your working conditions....

Honestly, I would prefer everyone in my office vaped constantly, than even one person come in with really strong smelling perfume. Perfume (especially musk-y types) tends to give me a huge headache and whilst I don't like the smell of most vapes, if we are honest all people are really protesting is the smell. And yes, some vapes smell absolutely horrendous, I have to admit. My dad has a cinnamon one which is awful.

Would be nice if I could force everyone who wore perfume to stay at home or stand outside for a few hours to shift the smell for me, but sadly the world does not work like that.

Also regardless of what studies say, perfume could be causing me cancer/ebola/whatever.

It should be treated the same as smoking, it’s a nasty smell. If people want to vape they can do it outside and not force everyone else to inhale their vapour.

Some people can be so inconsiderate and selfish. ‘There’s no proof vamping is harmful? Great, I’ll just do it where I want them and I don’t care if it bothers others. It’s not illegal therefore I don’t give a shit about anyone else’.

Where I live vaping is on it's way to being regulated in the same way as smoking. There is good evidence that children who vape with nicotine (and increasingly lots of them do, also popular are sweets flavoured vapours and marijuana juice) are much more likely to progress to smoking cigarettes so while vaping can be very effective in helping people to stop smoking they are not completely benign.

Personally I mostly find vaping a bit silly looking with all the clouds of smoke. I think it's OK outside but very inconsiderate inside and I'm glad it's not something I have to put up with.

It should be treated the same as smoking, it’s a nasty smell

Smoking is regulated because it is harmful to others, not because of it's smell. Protecting people from being harmed by others is a legitimate use of government power; protecting people from a smell they don't like is not.

There is good evidence that children who vape with nicotine (and increasingly lots of them do, also popular are sweets flavoured vapours and marijuana juice) are much more likely to progress to smoking cigarettes

No there's not. Info on UK ecig use among children here: Regular use of electronic cigarettes among children and young people in Britain is rare and is confined almost entirely to those who currently smoke or have previously smoked.

International data discussed in the PHE report from page 86. Same picture and a lot of criticism about methodology in other countries.

Children may be experimenting with ecigs but they are not getting hooked. As with adults, regular use is almost entirely confined to smokers and ex smokers.

Glad you posted that Pencils, saved me going to look for the PHE link

Again, so many urban myths being touted as the truth. Maybe social media really will be the death of science!

Worriedmum - this article highlights the fact that smoking was once promoted as being healthy, as you say:
www.healio.com/hematology-oncology/news/print/hemonc-today/%7B241d62a7-fe6e-4c5b-9fed-a33cc6e4bd7c%7D/cigarettes-were-once-physician-tested-approved

Rebeccaslicker - I agree with everything you say. I don't care what arguments the likes of Samphire come out with - IMO people who vape in the office, or in pubs, restaurants and playgroups/nurseries, are selfish, ill-mannered, entitled and lazy. It's something I feel very strongly about.

As for the poster's father who continued to vape in a restaurant despite being asked not to repeatedly, words fail me.

I vape in pubs or restaurants. When it's permitted. That doesn't make me ill mannered because I use my voice and ASK first. "Am I ok to vape inside?"
If they say yes, then I vape

I always enjoyed the theory of science but when it comes to my health and my children's health, I'm not so interested in philosophical debates about "fine until proven not". if you think there's no risk, great for you. But why would you be so arrogant as to expect everyone else to believe you?! I also find it very odd that anyone claiming to know a lot about science as some posters here have would just assume that all ecigs and fluids are created equal. What sort of a test is that?!

I've worked on a lot of personal injury claims in my time. It's quite amazing what was once considered safe that comes out of the woodwork later on. Makes you rather cynical!

But the great thing about this thread is that nearly all the vapers are really considerate about it.

YABU, how would you have coped if you were born just a decade earlier and were obliged to cope with people smoking at their desks.
One day hopefully the ban will be lifted and you'll suck it up like we all had to do.

I don't like it when people spray me with perfume without asking and it is the same with vaping. I don't have a problem if I can walk away from it or if it isn't all over my food. So yes to vaping outside, but no in lifts offices and restaurants.

Gillybeanz - I grew up in a household in which my stepfather was a chain smoker. I developed asthma as did my two younger sisters.

I've had lifelong problems with my lungs and have been investigated for lung cancer three times, even though I have never smoked a cigarette in my life.

When you say: "One day hopefully the ban will be lifted and you'll suck it up like we all had to do"... it's not clear what you mean.

Do you mean that you hope the smoking ban will be lifted? If that's the case, that will never happen. If you are talking about a vaping ban being lifted at individual establishments such as pubs and restaurants, presumably that will be because there is a greater body of scientific evidence indicating conclusively that passive vaping is safe, in which case most non-vapers, myself included, will be satisfied with that.

However, if New York's blanket ban of vaping in public places is anything to go by, it is just a matter of time before the UK and other countries follow suit.

One of my best friends lost her mother to lung cancer from passive smoking. She'd never smoked a day in her life - but her husband did. Why on earth would you want people exposed to that sort of thing? Even if gillybeanz meant vaping - why would you hope that a ban is lifted so that other people had to breathe in vape fumes just because you once had to do it ?! Most peculiar.

How do you know the smoking ban will never be lifted?
I also grew up with people smoking in the household, not my parents though.
I was born with Asthma and was very poorly as a child as no inhalers back then, so I know what it's like.
But there are lots of harmful chemicals in the atmosphere, such as air fresheners, especially the plug in ones.
Those reed diffusers irritate me far more than cig smoke, I'm a smoker myself.
Perfumes make me wheeze and don't get me started about air con.
A bit of smoke from a cig or vapor doesn't bother many people, yet it's legal to choke people with perfume.

I just don't understand why there is such a fuss about getting up and going outside to vape. That's why I think those who vape in public indoor places are lazy.

I understand that vapers don't want to stand outside in close proximity to smokers but they only have to move a few feet away to escape cigarette smoke. If I'm sitting outside a restaurant or bar and I'm being bothered by smoke from the table next to me I just move. It's not difficult.

Gillybeanz, of course one should never say never, but there is simply too much evidence of disease caused by cigarette smoking and passive cigarette smoking for the ban to be lifted in my lifetime.

If the NHS is rationing treatment for smokers what leads you to think that a nationwide ban on smoking in public places will be lifted?

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/22/nhs-letter-more-rations-on-operations-obese-smokers -

uk.news.yahoo.com/nhs-bans-obese-smokers-surgery-indefinitely-090639347.html