Shocked at colleague vaping in the office

[dazedandconfused2016]

Just that really. I think it's selfish, irresponsible and rude.

I work in several offices as I'm freelance, thankfully not very often at this particular workplace. I know that vaping is banned in another department of the same company so one would assume the ban applies throughout all departments.

Obviously the rest of the team are turning a blind eye to it. Perhaps because the individual concerned has a level of seniority.

I do not accept that vaping is "safe". Too little is known about it to say that definitively. In fact, some studies have indicated that there are health risks associated with vaping:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/vaping-with-nicotine-is-heart-risk-r5tfssgt7

www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/concerns-explode-over-new-health-risks-vaping

Of course, some might say that if I don't like it I could stop accepting work from that employer but I imagine that I will be confronted by the same problem at other workplaces.

[Rebeccaslicker]

And again - WHY would you want it lifted?

I get that you don't like perfumes or air fresheners, that's totally fair enough, but it doesn't justify wanting the smoking ban to be lifted.

[dazedandconfused2016]

I often sit opposite a guy at work who told me that my perfume made him sneeze. I could give him chapter and verse about there being no substantive scientific evidence to suggest that perfume causes anything from cancer to sneezing.

But I didn't. I simply stopped wearing it. It's basic consideration.

[Mamabear4180]

Vaping is not even on a par with smoking. But it's anti social to blow clouds of vape around an office or any other enclosed space unless everyone's doing it.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

As for the poster's father who continued to vape in a restaurant despite being asked not to repeatedly, words fail me Like much else, you read that wrong!

That was obese smokers, not smokers... the difference in cohort described really does matter.

And that really is why I am disagreeing with you and Rebecca. You are misinterpreting the science, being gulled by scary headlines and are, quite possibly, focussing on vaping as a distraction from all the real health threats in the world.

You'd be happier and healthier if you could assess Relative Risk more accurately!

[Rebeccaslicker]

Um - I'm happy and healthy enough by not vaping in the first place, ta! And I don't want to have to vape passively in confined spaces. vaping has zero benefits for me and has possible risks, particularly at 6 months pregnant.

That's not a case of being "gulled" by the bogeyman of the daily fail.

Here is a recent BMA paper on vaping. When they use phrases like "assessing the risks on bystanders is complex" and "research remains limited", that is precisely what we are saying: whilst it is promising that initial reports suggest there is little harm, it's still an unknown area. The recommendation remains to have a softer stance than on smoking but to restrict vaping in public areas. Why then would you want to have to be vaped at in an office or a restaurant?

www.bma.org.uk/-/media/files/pdfs/collective%20voice/policy%20research/public%20and%20population%20health/e-cigarettes-position-paper-v3.pdf?la=en

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Oh! Are you still labouring under the misapprehension that I smoke or vape?

And I have never said there are no risks, just that the RR is acknowledged, AT THIS TIME, as being very low. Research is ongoing. You want vaping banned until research is complete - which it never will be especially if, given your stance, that it will only be satisfactorily completed when a risk is identified!

Basically, it is foolhardy to legislate based on fear of "What ifs..."

We'd all live in solitary confinement, a sterile bubble, if we insisted on a risk free world!

[dazedandconfused2016]

Hi Samphire,

Where was obesity mentioned? This was the original post on which I was commenting.

We went for my sister's menu tasting at a very posh venue with a dining room of maybe sixty people. Dad on the next table vaped through out the entire meal. He was asked three times by waiting staff to stop until the manager came over and threatened he'd kick him out. He proceeded to huff every five minutes to go outside and vape there.

I see no mention of an obese smoker. If you're referring to the phrase "huff every five minutes", that could mean several different things. It could mean that he's generally unfit, or that he has a breathing condition. It could mean that he's "huffing" in the way that people do when they are resentful.

I'm genuinely curious to know what else I've "read wrong", as you put it.

You are misinterpreting the science, being gulled by scary headlines.
You insinuate that every scientific study reported in the press is twisted to misrepresent the facts, which is simply wrong. Of course, some papers might do this but not all - there are responsible publications that publish such research too, y' know. On the other side of the coin, I could argue that you are ignoring evidence that you don't agree with and conveniently dismissing it as media scare stories.

In addition, to insist that "I'm focusing on vaping as a distraction from all the real health threats in the world" misses the point entirely. I have nothing against people vaping. I object to being exposed to it against my will in a confined space. Apart from the as yet unknown risk, it is an unpleasant nuisance.

And as for your assumption that I would be happier and healthier if I could "assess Relative Risk more accurately", I run 15km a week and regularly play tennis. So I'm fairly healthy, considering my lung issues. Furthermore I'm generally happy when not confronted with antisocial behaviour such as people vaping within close proximity to me indoors because they couldn't be bothered to go outside.

[dazedandconfused2016]

Sorry Samphire but the only person who seems to be labouring under a misapprehension is you. Neither Rebecca nor I are saying vaping should be banned! We are simply saying that vapers should be considerate enough to vape outdoors or away from us!

[Rebeccaslicker]

No, I am writing on the assumption that you don't vape. And I don't want vaping "banned". In fact I think it has a very useful role to play, and have said so repeatedly upthread.

I just don't want it indoors where I have no choice but to breathe it in. If the BMA still recommends controlling it in public places, why would I want it in private places?

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Rebecca has used the word banned a few times, no matter that she now says she doesn't want it banned... she used the word in her first post, possibly! I have no idea what she means if she doesn't mean banned! Controlled, somewhere else, not here...

The NHS links you used to show reduction in services was specifically for obese smokers, the hint is in the titles of the studies you linked to!

I insinuate nothing about the research, just the use to which it is put by non scientists, journalists etc.

And, if you read me back, you will find that I don't disagree with you about the need for vapers to be considerate! I just don't see the need to demonise them.

Stay calm, read the science and try not to fall foul of hyperbole!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Oh and I read 'Dad on the next table" to mean some bloke, someones dad, not the posters parent!!

[Rebeccaslicker]

No. I said, "banned from doing it in close proximity to other people". That means not in places like offices or restaurants. Absolutely nowhere have I talked about banning vaping. I suggested having separate vaping and smoking areas in pubs, for example.

[dazedandconfused2016]

Think we got our wires crossed, Samphire. I’ll have another look at those links - which I posted in a hurry as I was rushing out to go to work.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

I'm sure I covered that with "Controlled, somewhere else, not here..."

And many pubs do insist vapers go out with the smokers, or at least do not vape in the pub! But it isn't law! Maybe start a petition...

dazed my apologies, it was just the titles that said obese and smokers... shoot me now!

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

We crossed posts, dazed I was wrong, should have read further than the headlines - ironic given the issue I have with many 'monster shouters' who don't read or understand the science.

Colour me suitably embarrassed

[Firefries]

Are kids allowed to vape? TBH i haven't followed the vaping much but it seems to be the "latest thing" amongst kids. Anyone know if their own kids vape, or do you let your kids vape? As it's considered safe by many, I can see how so many kids have gotten into it too. I just want to know your perspectives. I'm not causing an argument. Thanks.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

There have been a few studies into kids vaping, there's a link or 3 upthread. It seems quite a number try it, usually without nicotine, and then that's it... tried it, got bored, didn't bother.

There is little evidence that it is a 'thing' let alone a gateway to smoking or vaping with nicotine.

And yes, kids are allowed to vape, by the adults who give them the e-cigs! Not by law.

[dazedandconfused2016]

I just checked those links, Samphire, and the stories refer to smokers and the obese, not obese smokers as such. My point was not about the obese

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

dazed I did confess to not having read them properly, see above!

[dazedandconfused2016]

Posted too soon! Damn iPhone. The fact that obese people were included in the report was incidental. I found another article by CNN discussing the UK’s rationing of healthcare for smokers in some hospitals but didn’t post it. The fact that such a policy was being discussed Stateside was interesting in itself.

[dazedandconfused2016]

No worries, Samphire. Easily done!

[Floellabumbags]

Are kids allowed to vape?

It's licensed in the same way as tobacco so over 18s only. In theory.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Thanks, but I definitely broke my high horse

[Rebeccaslicker]

Noooo you can't admit you were wrong on the internet - that's not how this works!

[nooka]

PencilsInSpace I'm not in the UK so not referring to UK research. However there is UK research that does show a relationship between e-cigarettes and later cigarette smoking: tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/early/2017/07/28/tobaccocontrol-2016-053539 looks like a fairly good study too, although similar results over a longer time period will be more compelling.

Here is an editorial from Pediatrics about the study I was thinking of, which has been widely reported where I live (Canada): pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/11/30/peds.2017-2850?sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR%3a+No+local+token

It's much to early to say that vaping is entirely benign.