Tube seat WIBU?

[mathsquestions]

I deliberately avoid priority seats (as I have a dodgy ankle). This morning I was busy reading some papers and a pregnant lady asked for my seat. I immediately obliged but once she was seated I said that the correct etiquette is to ask someone seated in the priority seats. She was not impressed. WIBU???

You have an etiquette lecture to a pregnant woman on the tube? Class.

Re: the humiliation thing.

I often say that kind of thing when I give my seat away. As a PP said, it’s kind of a “oh, honestly, it’s no big deal, I don’t really need the seat for long, don’t worry” type response.

I’d be sure I’d never have come across as belittling or humiliating but MN always teaches me that someone somewhere has a totally different perception of the same thing.

I think she was being a bit odd to ask you for a seat - I’ve commuted through three pregnancies and made a point of getting on at the doors where there were four priority seats and asking the healthiest looking person. Once or twice, they explained they couldn’t stand and someone else immediately offered a seat. I wouldn’t ask someone in a non priority seat. I also make a point of sitting in non priority seats I I can, though I still offer them to people more in need obvs.

felt so belittled and humiliated. I never returned to work

I think you totally misunderstood what that man was meaning! Please don’t tell me you have never returned to work because of that one comment?!

I make it a personal habit to speak up for people on the tube / train who clearly need a seat - pregnant, crutches etc. A loud 'could someone give this lady a seat' always works (I do check first but so many people can be shy about asking). Often more then one person offers their seat.

I don't think I've ever had no response, but I can be particularly strident at times

But I never pick on individuals - a loud assertive tone has always got results! Then no one can ignore it or remain immersed in their phone / paper

OP, I don't think YABU.

She should have asked the general carriage if someone will give up a priority seat they don't need. Hopefully she will do that in future, although it seems a lot of people lack the assertiveness to do that or have anxiety.

In your situation, I would have asked the general carriage if someone would free up a priority seat they don't need for the pregnant lady. If no response, I would have had to consider whose need was greater (you may be more likely to fall with a dodgy ankle than a pregnant women)?

@Whatevapeeps

While I was heavily pregnant (8 months) I once gave up my non-priority seat for a blind man as no one else was going to bother their arse.

Why didn't you ask loudly for someone to give up a seat for him?

Either do the right thing or don’t, but don’t be a pretentious tool about it. You didmt need to sit.

OP isn't the problem. It's all the people who can't seem to open their mouth and ask for a seat for themself or others.

And OP did need to sit, she said she has a dodgy ankle.

I can't believe you lectured a stranger on the tube about some made up etiquette. If you didn't want to give her the seat you should have said you had a sore ankle.

It's not made up etiquette, it's how the tube is supposed to work.

It sounds like lots of people commenting have never commuted on the tube.

RE the humiliation thing

The man sat for several stops whilst the poster stood. When he finally gave up his seat, for which the poster thanked him, he basically told her that he wasn’t actually giving it up for her, he just had to get off. Other people in the carriage found this funny. I understand why the poster felt humiliated; I would have too (social anxiety).

Anyway, OP YWBU. Fair enough if you’re annoyed because you also needed to sit, but keep it to yourself rather than lecturing the poor woman in front of a carriage-full

To be honest I was pregnant 5 Times in my 20s and early 30s and was fit and healthy and far more able to stand up in the tube than I am now in my early 50s.

Pregnancy was a picnic for me whereas menopause aches and tiredness utterly vile.

I think she was rude to ask you op but you reacted strangely too.

I used to say "would someone be able to give me seat please" in a loud and friendly voice while specifically looking at the person I thought probably most likely to be able to give the seat up. I would then thank them profusely.

That always worked and felt like a good compromise, except once when I lost it at Earls Court when a guy in a priority seat just looked at the floor ignoring me, 38 weeks pregnant with a three year old, and I departed from my general address to add "not you, clearly" in a somewhat pointed voice. I was gratified when the surrounding seats all laughed and he got off looking slightly ashamed at the next stop (and yes I know, hidden disabilities, but no way would he have found it difficult to stand, he was just a lazy bastard. After 20 years on the tube you can recognise the ones who just wait for someone else to give up their seat instead, priority seat or no priority seat).

Its not at all rude to ask someone for their seat. Its rude to demand but not to ask politely. Society is becoming fucked. I have been stood on buses and trains and seen frail elderly people trying to hang on to rails as no one offers them a seat. Alongside pregnant women. Have also seen people refuse to move shopping bags for prams and wheelchairs. Op your reaction was rude and weird.

The priority seats generally have little labels saying "please give this seat up to someone with limited mobility/ less ability to stand" or similar. So anyone can sit in a priority seat, but they should vacate if the seat is needed by someone. You don't leave them empty in case somebody needs them!

So yes when I was pregnant I would ask the people in priority seats if they would let me sit down. If they said "no sorry I need this seat" then I'd ask someone else/ hopefully somebody else would stand up, or I'd get off.

In two pregnancies commuting in London only once was I offered a seat without asking! Every other time I politely asked and somebody stood up. People generally travel in their own little bubble and don't look at other travellers to see if they have a bump/ disability. I would ask the people in the priority seats if they didn't have an obvious disability/ elderly, if I thought they wouldn't be able to stand up I'd politely ask somebody else. You're only asking, they can say no.

Obviously they might have a hidden disability, but if you don't ask you'd never get a seat, and more likely they were just in their own world.

Personally I would much rather someone just asked for a seat if they needed it. I hate having to work out how old is old enough to offer a seat, whether that is a pregnancy or just a big tummy, whether that person looks unwell or not. It can offend people if they think you are incorrectly saying they are weak/ old/ pregnant....

Didn't a comedian have a joke "I'd rather see a pregnant Lady stand up than a fat lady sit down crying?"

So the pregnant lady was perfectly reasonable to ask for a seat. And you would have been perfectly reasonable to say "I'm afraid I need this seat ( could add due to an injury/ illness/ disability if you wanted)". She can ask somebody else, or get off the train.

Having got up, it was unreasonable of you to criticise her. Either say no, or get up. Don't get up reluctantly then criticise her. She just asked you, she didn't demand. you could have said no! I would have felt irritated in her shoes, it's like you are saying she was too forceful and you were unable to say no

I really don’t think people who obviously need a seat should have to call out a request to the entire carriage. How embarrassing.

Just bloody offer, or if you’re asked directly, get up if you can. Without the follow-up lecture.

Manners are dead, I swear.

This is a tricky one. My partner is disabled, uses a crutch and struggles to stand for long periods of time. It amazes me how many people ignore his disability, push him out of the way in shops etc. I'm 32 weeks pregnant and am not having a great time of it, keep having funny turns and feeling sick and faint. I understand some women sail through pregnancy but I do think some people forget it affects people in different ways. I wouldn't ask for a seat unless I was having a funny turn and tbh by the time I asked someone I probably would faint. Still it amazes me when myself and my partner go out somewhere and people still barge us out of the way etc. It's completely opened my eyes. I was always taught by my mum to give up my seat for those who need it. Maybe she was feeling sick? She probably thought that you were the most approachable person there and you weren't in priority seating so I guess she didn't think you needed it?

ohno

I did but nobody else was going to voluntarily even though I did ask others sitting around me —but thanks for your suggestion which is never have thought of otherwise— and frankly of the two of us he needed the seat more. It was the right thing to do.

And no it isn’t always the people who can’t speak up. They often realise that there may be others with hidden reasons why they need a seat so they don’t pointedly ask someone to move. Everybody knows that whilst the priority seats should be given to people with a priority I’d like to think that if I’m sat there knowing I’m ok to stand, id give up my seat for what is likely to be only a few short stops without having to be asked As that’s what a decent person would do and whether it’s a “priority seat” or not

Whateva - I asked you if you asked for a seat for him because you didn't mention it in your post.

I didn't say people should pointedly ask one person for a seat. You can ask the general carriage to get up 'could someone please give up a priority seat they don't need?'

People in need should absolutely do the above. The priority seats sign doesn't say 'please keep free for disabled people'. They can be used by those not in need. However, if someone doesn't get up, unfortunately the onus then falls on the person in need to ask for a seat to be vacated.

I travel on the tube with my disabled mum sometimes and have no qualms about asking for a priority seat for her.

She should have stood near the priority seats and said 'Is anyone able to give up a seat?'

Although generally when I get the bus young students who seem to have no disability go for the priority seats when there's room near the back and look sheepish and engaged in their phone when someone elderly gets on the bus. (I do understand that some may have hidden disabilities.)

It was worse when I was studying for my undergrad in a university town and students would all sit near the front and then do nothing when an old person with a stick got on. I found it disgusting and would be prepared to move straightaway if sat in a priority seat or at the front.

Surely the whole point of the 'baby on board' badges is that you do not have to ask? They also avoid someone not offering thinking you may have just put on weight.

Surely the whole point of the 'baby on board' badges is that you do not have to ask?

Sadly lots of people either don't see them, or ignore them

They are helpful to avoid having to explain you are pregnant when you do ask

I found that people stood up readily when asked, but didn't volunteer to do so - probably hoping somebody else would volunteer first!

When I was pregnant I always asked the people in the priority seats if they needed them. The answer was always no and I got a seat. I don't think you were being unreasonable.