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‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ - as it should be! Trump thread continued.

986 replies

TheClaws · 05/12/2017 05:30

From Shakespeake’s Henry IV, Act 3 Scene 1.

Old thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3094156-All-we-want-for-Christmas-is-an-IMPEACHMENT-Trump-cont

OP posts:
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OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 10:02

Matt McDermott‏Verified account
@mattmfm
After Scott Brown won in 2009, Democrats accepted the will of voters and agreed to wait until he was seated to vote on Obamacare.

It would be absolutely inexcusable for Mitch McConnell not to delay the tax vote until Doug Jones is seated.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 10:03

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account
@kylegriffin1
The Daily Beast has confirmed that Democrats on the House Intel Committee want to get Jared Kushner back to answer additional questions, primarily about his foreign contacts.

www.thedailybeast.com/russia-probe-dems-want-to-grill-jared-kushner-again

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 10:03

Matt Fuller‏Verified account
@MEPFuller

Here’s a story for you:

There are a bunch of rumors flying around the Capitol that Paul Ryan’s speakership may be coming to an end soon.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/paul-ryan-weighing-retirement_us_5a31ce86e4b07ff75b00274d

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 10:04

Caroline O.‏
@RVAwonk
OMFG --> Cernovich & Chuck Johnson pushed a fake sexual harassment complaint against Sen. Schumer. The forgery plagiarized a portion of the Conyers complaint — including "House Rule 23," which, notably, does not exist in the Senate.

www.thedailybeast.com/mike-cernovich-chuck-johnson-alt-right-hyped-anti-schumer-forgery-that-plagiarized-conyers-complaint?source=twitter&via=desktop

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 10:17

Bernie Sanders‏Verified account
@BernieSanders
My thoughts on last night’s election in Alabama:

Al Giordano‏Verified account
@AlGiordano
The Senator's "Our Revolution" group refused to even endorse Doug Jones but here he is taking credit for the hard work of Alabamans the day after the win.

Shannon 💃🏻‏
@TheStagmania
Sanders playbook:

  1. Refuse to endorse Dems, plan media tour to explain why they lost

  2. Whoops, Dems won! Go on media tour to explain why it's not a real victory

  3. Shit, no one's buying it. Pivot to take credit for win, fund raise off lie, do another pointless CNN town hall

CNN‏Verified account
@CNN
Bernie Sanders on Doug Jones' win: “Against all of the odds, Jones won because there was a very, very large turnout. ... When people stand up and fight back, you can win, even in a conservative state like Alabama” cnn.it/2yp0CV9

Soledad O'Brien‏Verified account
@soledadobrien
A black female legislator, might have had a more interesting perspective than Bernie Sanders

Also this seems relevant on Sanders' "enough with identity politics" stance, class and the white working class is where it's at:

Leah McElrath‏
@leahmcelrath
Black Alabamians did not turn out in the numbers they did nor vote Democratic just BECAUSE they are Black.

Black Alabamians turned out in the numbers they did and voted Democratic because they UNDERSTOOD THE STAKES.

And they UNDERSTOOD THE STAKES because THEY ARE BLACK.

The (often multi-generational) experience of being Black in the Deep South informs the engagement and pragmatism of Black voters.

Black Alabamians understood the stakes in the election more than any other group BECAUSE THEY LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES of Trumpism every day.

(In addition, Black voters in Alabama were mobilized via comprehensive efforts by Black organizations and direct person-to-person contact by organizers aligned with Democrats. The below thread by @AlGiordano is a #mustread.)

In contrast, white voters with their Obamacare, Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP, SSDI, SSI, and ability to support their families at stake clearly did NOT appear to understand what was at stake for them.

Why not?

THAT is a question worth discussing.

Again:

Black Alabamians did not vote Democratic and turn out the way they did BECAUSE they are Black.

They voted Democratic and turned out because the EXPERIENCE of being Black informs how Black voters make their decisions.

NOT their skin color.

What is often unfortunately and derisively referred to as "identity politics" needs to be understood as "experience politics."

We ALL live different EXPERIENCES – and those experiences are informed by a wide variety of factors.

Which brings us back to your original query:

What informs the EXPERIENCE of white working class Alabamians is VERY different than what informs the experience of WWC in PA, WI, MI, etc.

Which means the answers to engaging those voters are DIFFERENT.

Contrary to longings among some socialists – and especially since the destruction of the labor movement and the weakening of unions – there has not been a "white working class" common experience, shared reality, or "identity" in the US.

White, non-wealthy Alabamians identify more as "Evangelical Christians" than as "working class."

The experience within white "Evangelical Christian" churches is deeply brainwashing (not hyperbole).

(I refer folks to #YouDontKnowEvangelicals & #EmptyThePews for more info.)

For the most part, the mainstream media and political operatives have OVER-emphasized Trump's focus on the white "working class" and UNDER-recognized his VERY strategic targeting of white Evangelical Christians.

It is a HUGE MISTAKE to conflate the two groups.

Trump used DIFFERENT language and (false) promises in his speeches which spoke to DIFFERENT •subgroups• within what is being mistakenly called the "white working class."

To appeal to Rust Belt white laborers, Trump had language about trade.

To appeal to Appalachian white laborers, Trump had language about mining.

Both were covered a lot in the news.

But those parts of Trump's stump speech were NOT how he appealed to Southern white laborers.

To appeal to Southern white laborers, Trump had language in his stump speech about...repealing the Johnson Amendment and recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.

The connection of those aspects of his campaign and white Evangelical Christians was minimally explored.

Hell, most Americans don't even know what the Johnson Amendment is.

(Or are aware of the fact that the GOP is attempting to repeal it within their #GOPTaxScam.)

And few non-white, non-Evangelical Christians understand why the Israeli capital matters to those outside of Israel.

In short, white American laborers are far less homogeneous in their EXPERIENCE than socialist theory would have it.

And – BECAUSE they are white – they have the privilege of FORGETTING they are white and focusing on experiences OTHER than the impact of their race on their lives.

Furthermore – because they are white – they have also internalized a less acknowledged aspect of racism and its role in class-based oppression:

White laborers believe their white privilege is FAR more protective than it actually is.

Lyndon Johnson and John Steinbeck each astutely observed how the ideology of racism not only oppresses PoC, but also serves to oppress white laborers very effectively: twitter.com/leahmcelrath/status/940936363205124096

To begin to close this thread:

Due to a variety of factors and influences, there is not currently a shared EXPERIENCE – or the •perception• of such by those affected – of being "white working class" in the US.

There are MULTIPLE experiences and related superseding identities.

In addition, white voters from ALL socio-economic classes tend to overestimate the protection white privilege affords us.

"Voting against one's interests" AND political purity tests are BOTH symptoms of white privilege and a delusional overestimation the protection it provides.

So how do we as progressives go forward?

As a start:

  1. We stop using the false construct of a homogeneous WWC.
  2. We start enlisting white Americans who have been/will be adversely impacted by GOP policies to tell their stories.
  3. We continue supporting/investing in PoC.

Embracing the reality of our PLURALISM – not chasing divisive and exclusionary populism – is the way forward for the Democratic Party.

‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ - as it should be! Trump thread continued.
lionheart · 14/12/2017 10:43

Good idea to shift from identity politics to 'Experience politics'--that's interesting Pain.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 11:09

On restrictive voting laws, as cited in that article

Paul Gowder 🐱 😺 😸 😹 😻 😼 😽 🙀 😿 😾 🦁 🐯 🐅 🐆 🐈‏
@PaulGowder
Oh look, it's another system of expropriation by bullshit law enforcement targeted at black people. I wrote about this in Ferguson at the end of the Rule of Law in the Real World, here's Jacksonville.

Pedestrian Tickets Lead to Hundreds of Suspended Driver’s Licenses

In Jacksonville, not paying your jaywalking ticket can cost you the ability to get to school or work. Again, blacks bear a disproportionate impact.

www.propublica.org/article/pedestrian-tickets-lead-to-hundreds-of-suspended-licenses?utm_source=pardot&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=dailynewsletter

Last month, the Times-Union/ProPublica investigation showed that 55 percent of the tickets given in recent years went to blacks despite the fact that they make up only 29 percent of the city’s population. Blacks were similarly overrepresented in the 932 tickets that led to license suspensions — 54 percent.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 12:53

Charlie Spiering
@charliespiering
Putin remarks that Trump is succeeding in some ways: “Look at the markets, the markets are up pretty strongly”

Maggie Haberman
@maggieNYT
Speaking to an audience of one in some respects...

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 13:36

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account
@kylegriffin1
“If you talk about Russia, meddling, interference — that takes the PDB off the rails.”

Officials tell WaPo Trump’s daily briefing ‘is often structured to avoid upsetting him’; Russia-related intel is in some cases not raised orally with Trump.

www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/donald-trump-pursues-vladimir-putin-russian-election-hacking/?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.18eee9305a9e

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account
@kylegriffin1
“The result is without obvious parallel... a situation in which the personal insecurities of the president — and his refusal to accept what even many in his administration regard as objective reality — have impaired the government’s response to a national security threat.”

cozietoesie · 14/12/2017 14:07

He needs someone to rail against and HRC is looking a bit 'old hat'.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 14:15

Plus Gillibrand is a potential 2020 runner.

lionheart · 14/12/2017 14:33

Yes, she will be excoriated on social media for having the temerity to resist, let alone to emerge as a potential 2020 candidate.

The bots and Trumpers will be working overtime.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 14:51

This is slightly off topic but we have discussed Murdoch's attempted merger in the UK before. There's been some developments

Ed Miliband‏Verified account
@Ed_Miliband
Fox/Disney deal: Murdochs admit defeat in attempt to gain control of Sky. Statement from me, @vincecable and @LordCFalconer

‘Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown’ - as it should be! Trump thread continued.
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 15:03

It's really astonishing that it's out in the public domain (not that it's any surprise) that Trump's fragility means he's unable to fulfil his role as commander in chief because his staff don't even dare to bring him any Russia related information. Usually I'd think this would go by without anything coming of it but whether it's because I'm still high from the joy of yesterday, I'm hopeful this might have repercussions.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 15:05

Although perhaps not (though his voters aren't in charge)

PublicPolicyPolling‏Verified account
@ppppolls
78% of Trump voters say the entire Russia story is 'fake news,' which is actually up from 69% in April. And even if collusion is proven they don't care- just 14% think he should resign if that happens, 77% stay in office:

www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/voters-think-trump-resign-harassment-allegations/

David Carroll 🦅‏Verified account
@profcarroll
Trump voters want autocracy and approve of an Oval Office infiltrated by a hostile foreign power. It’s a truth the rest of us need to understand.

lionheart · 14/12/2017 15:13

Unfortunately, given the Murdoch reach, not off topic at all. Sad

PerkingFaintly · 14/12/2017 15:17

Oh that's fantastic news, Pain.

And continuing props to Lord Puttnam for his "fit and proper person" clause in the original broadcasting bill, which have allowed Murdoch's bids to be questioned in these terms. This goes right back to the bid Murdoch withdrew when the News of The World phone-hacking was revealed.

OuaisMaisBon · 14/12/2017 15:18

Am I odd to be seeing an irony in the Britain First leader being arrested for hate speech in Belfast and Trump not being arrested for hate speech in the US?

PerkingFaintly · 14/12/2017 15:24

And I can't remember if I posted this, but Carole Cawalladr did an article a while back about this.

Rupert Murdoch ‘could use Sky data trove for political ends’
Peers issue warning over media mogul’s bid to buy TV network
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/15/sky-fox-rupert-murdoch-david-puttnam-database

The letter says that “Sky possess what is probably the UK’s largest and most sophisticated privately held domestic consumption database”, able to “track the leisure time preferences and behaviour” of a large proportion of the population of the UK and Ireland.But the safety and security of that data is threatened, the letter says, if “passed into foreign control”. It warns that should it “fall into the hands of an owner with an appetite for political leverage, the temptations and opportunities for misuse become very great indeed”.
[...]
Chi Onwurah, the shadow minister for business, innovation and skills and former head of telecoms technology at Ofcom, said that the value and significance of the data in the Fox/Sky deal hadn’t been taken into account in the government’s consideration of the deal.

“The whole of competition law is based on buying services. So what isn’t reflected anywhere in this process is that we exchange our data for services. It’s hugely valuable, but it’s been completely hidden on the balance sheet. It’s a massive fiduciary theft, in a way. It’s not being sold for the value that it has. And the ramifications of that incredibly valuable data being controlled by vested interests has not even been considered.”

Phil Westcott, managing director of an AI consultancy firm, Filament, who advises companies on how to handle emerging technology, said that what was most alarming was that a single company would own not just this “incredibly rich dataset” but also “all the main information channels into people’s lives”. Although Ofcom bans political advertising on TV, Lord Puttnam said the definition of what is political is a grey area and Westcott points out that at a single stroke Murdoch would gain control of the entire information environment of millions of people.

cozietoesie · 14/12/2017 15:26

The First Amendment, Ouais.

PerkingFaintly · 14/12/2017 15:26

Oh, and you'll never guess which company used to have its US offices in Murdoch's Newscorp building.

Cambridge Analytica.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 14/12/2017 15:32

I didn't know that perking! Shock