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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Wibu to request a meeting with ds nursery keywprker over this.

73 replies

Aspieparent · 04/12/2017 13:44

Now I don't want to be one of those parents and I appreciate nursery staff and teachers do there best and are often stretched to the limits.
My ds is 4 in pre school has developmental language disorder, development delay in every area, sensory issues, anxiety and also has poor muscle tone and stiffness in his leg which often causes pain and has been worse since the cold weather has hit.
I dropped him off for his session today and he said to the staff that he didn't want to go Forrest school. Is sensory issues cause him to struggle with the wind and rain which makes him super anxious and the cold his making him struggle more with his legs. I was telling them that he's suffering more with his legs but she didn't listen instead she spoke over me to ds and said tough there is no option to be in doors he has to go outside and that he would be able to sit at a table on the decking and colour. They do have outdoor heaters on the decking but aren't allowed near enough to benefit from them due to health and safety. I was pretty gob smacked at this and my face dropped. She then said he could colour in a little room on his own for a few minutes but he would have to go out after. The room in question is freezing as the doors open all the time as it's the entrance and exit from Forrest school.
I have once refused to take him to nursery on Forrest school day due to him being out in the cold and hurting nursery said that was best as if they ok to go to nursery they are ok to be out for the full session regardless of the weather.
Am I being to precious or should they be accomdating the fact that the could makes his issues to his legs alot worse.

OP posts:

mikeyssister · 04/12/2017 14:09

I understand what you're saying about being spoken over. That would wreck my head.

However, has the nursery somewhere else your son can go, and be supervised, while the other children are outside?

peachgreen · 04/12/2017 14:19

I don't really know what you expect them to do - they can't leave a staff member behind to supervise one child?

Flywheel · 04/12/2017 14:24

Yanbu. This set up is not working for your ds. Organise a meeting and if a resolution cannot be found you may have to find another nursery.

TheHungryDonkey · 04/12/2017 14:26

You know the setting better than us. Is there something you can suggest to them like moving him to a different class or age group for the duration.

YANBU but there's not really enough information about staff availability in the post etc to suggest where any reasonable adjustments can be made. They should make them though.

bostonkremekrazy · 04/12/2017 14:27

poor muscle tone should not be affected by cold weather.....
but maybe his sensory issues & anxiety are worse if he is cold. Does he have special provision in place for his needs?

It sounds like he does needs help to access the whole curriculum, and the staff did not understand this, or offer a good solution - did you expect him to be allowed to be kept inside with an adult for the whole session?

what solution would you like?
could you provide warmer clothing? all in one fleece lined waterproof? etc so your son could take part?

not good that she didnt listen & spoke over you...yes i'd ask for a meeting to find a good workable solution. Is this state or private nursery?

stella23 · 04/12/2017 14:28

When you signed up where you told that there was negotiations on whether they go to forest school?

abbsisspartacus · 04/12/2017 14:30

She spoke over you because maybe she feels your being pfb and making it worse? Talk in private away from your child?

Sirzy · 04/12/2017 14:31

But actually long term surely forest School will help him? You need to work with nursery to help come up with plans to help him access things rather than missing things.

Ds has a pretty similar list of problems and benefited massively from the forest School side of things when he was at nursery

midnightmisssuki · 04/12/2017 14:34

its a tough one op - what are their staffing levels like? Can they afford for one staff to stay behind with your OP?

Have they been to this place before and what did you ds do then?

Are they understanding towards his needs etc etc?

Welshmaenad · 04/12/2017 14:38

There's a limit to the reasonable adjustments they can make whilst maintaining staffing ratios. They have already offered several compromises. I think you either need to find a way to make him being outdoors work, or accept that this is not the right setting for him.

My DD has cerebral palsy and sensory issues. She does get stiffer in the cold in her affected leg and arm. However, whilst I'll fight like a tiger for an equal playing field for her, she also needs to know that the world isn't going to change for her. In your position, I'd be investing in very warm salopettes, the least rustly coat I could find, and sending her outside.

Rainbowandraindrops67 · 04/12/2017 14:41

It doesn’t sound like the nursery is a good fit for your child - I would change nurserys actually

alphasox · 04/12/2017 14:41

you should definitely have a meeting and discuss this with them, but go in looking for a solution, not just that you want to lodge a complaint and get them to do things your way.

as others have said, there is a lot to consider- you knew when you chose that school that there was a forest school - presumably that's a benefit - and did you talk to them about how they would manage your child's various sensory/developmental needs? if you haven't yet now is the time to do it. if they can't accommodate and support him fully perhaps this isn't the setting for him? but you could also do a lot more to assist, like others have said, sending in appropriate clothing so the cold is not such an issue etc.

Msqueen33 · 04/12/2017 14:44

I get what you mean. I have two kids with autism who need certain adjustments but this can only happen when the nursery have staff. I’m not saying it’s right he’s made to do something but if they’ve not the staff what should they have done? Both my dc have severe sensory issues and we work on these with gradual exposure. Do the nursery have a clear understanding of your child’s needs?

blueskyinmarch · 04/12/2017 14:49

If part of the nursery ethos and curriculum is that all the children have to participate in Forest school then it is very unlikely they will be able to spare a member of staff to stay back with your DS. They have staff/child ratios they must adhere to. It sounds like this nursery is not a good fit for your DS and you should maybe look for another one which doesn't do as much outdoor time.

ladystarkers · 04/12/2017 14:50

Their attitude seems very poor, that would concern me for a start.

If they can’t or are not willing to have a member of staff inside to supervise Ds you need to move him. I thought it was an Ofsted requirement that children have choice about being in or out? Also this is discrimation, DS has needs that they are refusing to meet? Surley they have snotty, coughing dcs that would be better indoors at this time of year.

Original poster

Aspieparent · 04/12/2017 15:05

Sorry for delay in answering.
For those who asked when we signed up we were told there was access to Forrest school for those children who like to go. We were never told they have to go.
He has als funding for additional help. The cold doesn't affect his muscle tone it affects his stiffness.
We have discussed with his key worker before about Forrest school and it was suggested that he goes in has some time to calm down and then attends Forrest for an hour of the session and then gets to go back in again. This was agreed but never carried out.

I am more shocked at how they talk to him like saying tough your going. Ds needs alot of comfort and reassurance that's never offered. I have been in meetings in a room next to him and heard him cry for the whole hour. They nursery don't understand him or his needs however i am not in a position to move him as we are currently on the road for a echp and if I was to move him this will get delayed and he needs it before he starts school next September.

OP posts:

Original poster

Aspieparent · 04/12/2017 15:06

They believe a child with a with coughs and colds are better outside to build up the immune systems.

OP posts:

Onceuponatimethen · 04/12/2017 15:11

I think you should call contact a family or one of the other sen charities to get clarity on ehcp. I have no experience but wouldn’t have thought it should be delayed if you move settings.

I think the crying for an hour would worry me on whether they are meeting his needs.

BadPolicy · 04/12/2017 15:12

I am more shocked at how they talk to him like saying tough your going.

But it is tough, sugar coating it won't help.

Lunde · 04/12/2017 15:14

Why is he getting so cold? Is he wearing proper padded outdoor clothing such as ski-suit/snow suit?

Onceuponatimethen · 04/12/2017 15:16

With children who have additional needs and are scared would ‘tough’ be the first response in an excellent setting?

00alwaysbusymum · 04/12/2017 15:23

I wouldn't personally choose a nursery with that set up.

My daughter doesn't like the cold and often asks to come in. So a forest School would be horrible for a large part of the year. Come summer she's completely different and loves being outdoors all the time

roconnell · 04/12/2017 15:23

I think you and this nursery seem to have fundamentally incompatible ideas about what children need.

They believe a child with a with coughs and colds are better outside to build up the immune systems

I am more shocked at how they talk to him like saying tough your going. Ds needs alot of comfort and reassurance that's never offered

These statements indicate to me very differing ideas on looking after children. As you aren't in a position to move your child to a nursery that is more compatible with your ideas you might just have to put up with it. They've offered a solution, take it, and insist that it's implemented.

The whole thing does come across a bit pfb if im honest.

Needsomezzzz · 04/12/2017 15:26

What IEP is in place? If a child has special needs and had funding for this there should to a plan of how to ensure the child is included.
Nurseries have to be inclusive and need to make reasonable adjustments to ensure all children are able to take part in all nursery activities.
In this case from what you have said, I would expect that he does got to Forest school, however he has blankets around him when sitting etc. Also to be outside for shorter periods.
I would ask to speak to the nursery SENCO and the manager and discuss a clear strategy as to what works best for your child.
Also if the local authority are providing the funding they will have needed to justify how they are using the funding to benefit the child.
Hope this helps

Ceto · 04/12/2017 15:32

I don't really know what you expect them to do - they can't leave a staff member behind to supervise one child?

Maybe something radical like complying with their legal duty to make reasonable adjustments for disability? If they can't do that, they really should make it clear before they accept the child in question.

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