to be worried that we are heading towards a cashless society?

[WaitingforGalGadot]

I read an article a few days ago about how the Government would like to phase out cash so that everyone is compelled to pay by card or bank transfer, supposedly to make things easier and quicker and destroy the black market.

I actually think this is really ominous as once there is no more cash, there is no more anonymity and your spending habits and lifestyle can be tracked even if you are not doing anything illegal. Big Brother watching your every more.

It also means the banks can impose negative interest rates (where you have to pay the banks to hold your money) on savings accounts to get people to spend rather than see their savings reduced and of course also means that you don't really have control of your own money since the banks can collapse, bail in your money or appropriate it (as has happened in places like Argentina, not too long ago).

Cash is also really useful and personally I don't find it a faff to use cash. I think this is really scary.

[bruffin]

Lijkk you dont need an app or email as ypu dont have to register an oyster card. Just top up at station and get balance there.
You only really need to go on line to keep an eye on your journeys to make sure youve tapped in and out and getvrefunds if overcharged

[LunasSpectreSpecs]

Agree with Karrie - I volunteer in a charity shop and when I do the banking it's usually 50/50 cash and cards, or more cash than card. Most of our sales are less than £10. And all those pennies put into the collection tin on the counter really mount up.

[Joey7t8]

^Can't remember the exact details (because I normally switch off when he starts one of his lectures) but he insists contactless is safer overall. I can get the details and try not to fall asleep if anyone is particularly interested.^

I'd be interested, liverbird. I can see that applepay would be more secure as it requires a fingerprint, but contactless only requires a card so must be less secure than card+PIN, apart from fact that spend is usually limited to £30.

[LoniceraJaponica]

I couldn't register the card because it hadn't been used for over a year. I don't live in London so the card only gets used once a year. I had tried to register it but it needed to have been used within the last 6 weeks.

[SylviaTietjens]

I’ve noticed in Macdonalds that they now come round trying to sell you cuddly toys to raise money for RMHC. I guess now that everyone is using the order points and paying by card their charity is really suffering from people no longer popping their change in the boxes on the counter.

[SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed]

We don't have Oyster cards where I live, but there are travel cards that sound similar. And no, you don't need an email address to use to use one unless you want to register it. Mine isn't registered and if I only ever topped it up using cash there would be no way of knowing who had used it to travel where. I actually top it up using the machine and my debit card, so I suppose theoretically it could be tracked.

I hardly ever use cash for anything - yesterday I went to cafe that didn't take cards and had to rummage in my bag for some coins and borrow 50p from a friend in order to pay. To be honest, if I'd known I wouldn't have gone in there. Saying that, I can see that not having cash could be a problem if there was a power cut, so I think I might keep some at home just in case.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Hiding We do have ATMs! We are rural, not Neanderthal!

[bananafish81]

Folk are saying how easy Oyster is to use. You just need the app & the email. Thus, there's no excuse for not going cashless, is the subtext of that statement.

You don't need the app and you don't need an email

You can access extra functionality but you certainly don't need it

You can just get a card from a newsagent or tube station, pay for it with cash and happily travel on the transport network. You can top it up with cash. Don't need to register it at all if you can't or don't wish to.

You can buy a day travelcard paper ticket from London underground stations if you want instead. You can pay with cash if you want. Same as Oyster. It's just that it's paper whereas Oyster is contactless. And you have to go to a tube station to buy it whereas you can top up Oyster at newsagents across the city. Whether paper or Oyster, you can buy both with cash. No app or email needed. You just can't pay for your bus directly with cash to the driver

No one is saying that should be rolled out to other cities. Less than 1% of journeys were already cashless before the policy was introduced. The behaviour was there before the policy. In other areas it isn't, so it would be madness to impose such a policy

[lynmilne65]

Use cash for odd jobs done round house and garden

[karriecreamer]

Funnily enough, our local buses are going the opposite way. We used to buy my son a monthly travel pass by card from the tourist information office or bus station, but the bus firm increased the cost of the monthly pass, and brought in a day rover ticket which works out cheaper, but has to be bought in cash from the driver on the first journey of the day. Around here, bus drivers don't accept cards as there are no machines on the buses (poor mobile internet!)

[SnugglySnerd]

It would surely mean the end of things like ice cream vans and arcades on the pier.

Also I think more people would overspend eg on a night out. I used to take say £30 for drinks, club entrance etc (in the 90s I know that wouldn't get me very far now) and put a tenner somewhere safe for a taxi home. Once I'd spent it that was it. I can imagine now it would be easy to spend hundreds on a card without really noticing. Especially if you were a bit drunk and got carried away buying rounds.

[PerkingFaintly]

I'd be interested too, liverbird.

I'd also be interested in the question, "safer for whom?"

In previous discussions of fraud, it's become clear the answer is sometimes "safer for the bank". Ie the bank is less likely to have to pay out for losses, not that the consumer is less likely to see losses.

[scaryteacher]

Liverbird Bananafish I said Belgium didn't have contactless, not that they didn't have debit cards! However, having cash is essential for parking for short times; not everywhere takes cards (one of my favourite bakers has only had a debit card machine in the past couple of years); my hair salon of many years never took cards; you need cash to buy a tram ticket if you don't have a Mobib card, and the kids that come round selling waffles for Scouts don't have a card reader either. Having lived in Belgium since 2006, I have seen a slight move towards more e-commerce, but not a lot, and it is still a fairly cash based economy. There is payment by phones in some places I think, but contactless debit cards are not a thing (and they don't have the three digit identification on the back, as my UK one does). It's Maestro, as opposed to Visa or MasterCard.

My home

[scaryteacher]

Meant to add my home in UK is Cornwall and the village shop has a card machine for the Post Office side, but not for the shop, so you get cash out at the PO counter, then spend it at the shop. Lots of the rural economy runs on cash still, and I can't see that stopping anytime soon.

[SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed]

According to this link, Belgium does have contactless cards www.justlanded.co.uk/english/Belgium/Belgium-Guide/Money/Debit-Cash-Cards

[SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed]

And here's another one moneysaver.be/news/contactless-payments-belgium.html

[Missymoo100]

This is predicted in the bible;

All will receive a mark on the right hand or forehead

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

[lljkk]

Thanks for all the logistics about how to use Oyster cards. I've always been baffled about all that. I suspect a completely different system will be in use 10 yrs from now, though.

As I said before, I'm not going to keep good track of a card (or the rules how to use it) I can use so rarely. I just found info that you have to use Oyster once every 24 months or the credit expires (but seems you can get a refund by going to a window... and then would need a new card, I guess). I have form for never using credit up on things. Much more sensible to just buy a daily tube ticket on the day exactly when I need it (hope they take cash or card).

My train line has a black spot when payment by card becomes difficult. Faster & easier to pay for daily tickets with cash.

[bananafish81]

@lljkk yep, you can buy a paper day travelcard with cash or card from a machine at any tube or overground station. You don't have to use a debit card at any point. You just can't pay the driver directly with cash on a London bus.

If you have a contactless debit card then if you also have the option to use your card directly, rather than buy a ticket or Oyster card - you just tap your card on the reader.

Many different options, but don't HAVE to use a card at any point if you don't want to

[Aridane]

It's becoming increasingly difficult to top up my Oyster card by cash at my local station. There is no ticket office - and of the various machines, only one will take cash for Oyster top ups (and it's often out of order for cash)

[MongerTruffle]

I can see that applepay would be more secure as it requires a fingerprint

Which is why there is no £30 restriction with Apple Pay. Using your fingerprint is equivalent to using a PIN.

[mothertruck3r]

I think they will do this as the tax take drops. They can put a very very small tax on all types of transactions so that people can't avoid tax. For example if everyone has to pay a small surcharge every time they buy food then that will collect a lot of tax over time.

I suppose if it worked they could replace other taxes like VAT but the Government aren't known for getting rid of tax, they might just make it an extra tax as obviously they can never have enough of our money to waste on pet projects. I think it will be used to control people but also to get rid of the black market that thrives on cash. I'm in two minds about it, depending on who controls the money.

[mothertruck3r]

India got rid of large denominations of notes about a year ago to try and flush out the black market.

money.cnn.com/2016/11/08/news/economy/india-rupee-notes-ban-currency/index.html

[splendide]

if everyone has to pay a small surcharge every time they buy food then that will collect a lot of tax over time.
His would it differ from VAT?

[splendide]

How sorry