to be worried that we are heading towards a cashless society?

[WaitingforGalGadot]

I read an article a few days ago about how the Government would like to phase out cash so that everyone is compelled to pay by card or bank transfer, supposedly to make things easier and quicker and destroy the black market.

I actually think this is really ominous as once there is no more cash, there is no more anonymity and your spending habits and lifestyle can be tracked even if you are not doing anything illegal. Big Brother watching your every more.

It also means the banks can impose negative interest rates (where you have to pay the banks to hold your money) on savings accounts to get people to spend rather than see their savings reduced and of course also means that you don't really have control of your own money since the banks can collapse, bail in your money or appropriate it (as has happened in places like Argentina, not too long ago).

Cash is also really useful and personally I don't find it a faff to use cash. I think this is really scary.

[MissionItsPossible]

Judashascomeintosomemoney

I thought this too! Out of every person I have asked, not one prefers the new notes to the old ones and the only slight positive is that 'they look a bit nicer'. But they are slippery, don't fold, and as you say, spring out unexpectedly. In the first month of the new five pound notes being released I lost two myself and found someone else's once. I did wonder whether they were purposely like that to bully us into a cashless society!

[Lucisky]

Illegal to have over 5k in cash? I don't think so unless you are taking it out of the country, in which case customs may need you to prove where it came from, for fears of tax evasion. Visit any large item auction house (or horse sale) or the betting ring at a racecourse and people have large wads of cash about their person.
Cashless society, no, but I think it will become more common to pay for even small purchases by card. I recently visited Iceland and they are surprised if you produce cash. A pint, a cup of coffee, a taxi ride, card payment is always expected. It seemed very convenient to me.

[greenapplesplatter]

@Rubyslippers7780 exactly!! My DGran is still hyperventilating that they may stop cheques being used!! Never pays for anything by direct debit etc. Takes her one cheque made out for cash to the bank every Tuesday at 11am!! She got a fake £20 note around 25 years ago & to this day refuses to have one! The fact that notes have changed several times since makes no difference.
Jesus the thought of it makes me shudder!!

[Zevitevitchofcrimas]

judas I'm glad you mentor the springing out if purse I was trying to explain this to dh when I thought I had lost some money. He looked at me blank

[The80sweregreat]

You can have as much cash as you like in your own home - you just run the risk of being burgled i suppose!
This is why banks were invented i guess.
i dread having to pay for the car park with a card all the time, it takes forever and it it goes wrong, who do you get to sort it out? sticking a pound in a machine isnt as stressful ( if you only want to be in town for an hour!)

[scrabbler3]

I only use cash in the few remaining places (like my DS' barber) who don't have a machine for contactless/chip and pin. I wouldn't miss cash. It's already starting to feel very old-fashioned.

I like the idea of tax evasion and fraud being harder.

I worry about the impact on individuals who can't use tech for whatever reason. It would feel quite frightening and isolating I think.

Charities would be impacted by the lack of change to shove into collection boxes. The annual Poppy Appeal springs to mind. Those 10p pieces add up.

School fetes, church collections etc - not sure how they'd do it.

Grandparents who want to give their visiting grandchildren a fiver or whatever - they'd have to transfer it. That would feel quite weird at first.

We'll get used to it. We'll have no choice I suppose.

[purits]

They may try to make society cashless but it won't happen. People will find a way round it eg going back to bartering or they will invent their own new currency.

[Evelynismyspyname]

Where I live there are still lots of shops which only take cash! (Abroad, EU, rural). I suspect cash will never be made illegal but may fade out of use to the extent retailers will stop taking it eventually, making it effectively worthless... However this will not happen in every country, at least not for a very, very, very long time!

Perhaps keep the cash stash under your mattress in € :o

[Gingernaut]

There's no limit to how much cash one can legally hold.

However, those who try to make transactions of €10,000 or more, without registering as a high value dealer with the Inland Revenue (and your bank/building society) will automatically be referred to the Inland Revenue and have their bank account frozen.

Cash gifts of up to £3000 are possible if one wishes to avoid Inheritance Tax, although the Tax Man will stick his oar in if certain conditions aren't met.

Under the Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984, police can legally seize large (-ish) sums of cash and retain for up to 2 years.

[PositivelyPERF]

It’s already illigal to have over £5k in cash at any one time.

panics....looks down the back of sofa.....pulls out fluff....breaths sigh of relief 😁

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

Mm! Some banks will ask you to prove the source of cash you try to pay in, that seems to start at £15K.

You can't carry more than 10K in Euros across a border outside Europe without having to declare it.

That 10K Euros seems to apply to cash payments to trades too - in the Anti Money Laundering regs.

But I've never heard of there being a limit of cash you can actually hold! That sounds ludicrous!

[The80sweregreat]

Its always been about control hasn't it? when i started working properly in the early 80s, i had no choice but to be paid by my wage going into a bank - i had to have a bank account. One lady refused and carried on being paid weekly, in cash, until she retired. She was the exception - everyone else had an account and a cash card. the banks are ( mostly) run by the government, of course they want to know what people earn and spend money on - the builders etc that like dealing with cash wont like it and a lot of smaller shops only take cards if its over £5 sometimes as well - some even charge extra. Going to be hard for people who only deal in cash for whatever reasons.

[PerkingFaintly]

It's not just the banks this would hand control to.

Facebook, which may already have uncomfortably large amounts of your personal data, is getting in on the act. It will analyse your conversations with your friends, all the better to persuade you to use Facebook Messenger payment system.

Facebook Messenger payments comes to UK
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41894014

[PositivelyPERF]

That's a very good point, purit. I've already used skill swaps to have work done on my house and help with my business.

I'd have to increase my prices as going cashless would actually make more work for me, as there are so many different ways to pay, such as standing orders, bank transfer, PayPal, ect.

[PerkingFaintly]

Of course, Facebook isn't a lone entity.

It's happy to work directly with political campaigns, to "nudge" you about those, as well. Eg it embedded staff in the Trump campaign to work with Cambridge Analytica, to target people individually according to their susceptibility to fear, or to arguments to boycott the election completely.

This is who you'd be handing control and data about your payments to.

How Facebook, Google and Twitter 'embeds' helped Trump in 2016
A study reveals employees the companies placed in the Trump campaign played a surprisingly active role in shaping its message and targeting voters.
www.politico.com/story/2017/10/26/facebook-google-twitter-trump-244191

[PositivelyPERF]

That's actually reminded me, when I went to put a couple of hundred into my middle child's bank account, he lives in England, I was told I couldn't do it without his bank card! 😮 I've regularly put money in his account, to help him out, and never had this problem. Apparently he would have to get me a second card, but there us no way either of us want that, or I would have to do a bank transfer. It looks like the government are already tracking our money.

[PositivelyPERF]

Between TIMS taking over women's spaces/roles and this, it really is looking more like the Handmaiden's Tail. 🙁 It's fucking scary.

[ohfortuna]

Of course it is in the interests of those in power to have as much information about their subjects as possible
all the better to control them, anticipate what they might do etc

[aquashiv]

God know bring it on. I hate cash.

[PerkingFaintly]

There was an excellent BBC/Open University programme about this recently: //www.open.edu/openlearn/tv-radio-events/tv/billion-dollar-deals?episode=19808#episode-details_19808
"This major new series by Jacques Peretti tells the story of how we sleep-walked into this new world. A world in which we were psychologically reprogrammed by pivotal business decisions to rethink every aspect of our lives.

"In 2015, for the first time in history, cash payments were overtaken by card and contactless transactions. But why are we turning our backs on cash? And what are we replacing it with?

"In this episode, Jacques explores the deals which have shaped the way we understand money.

"From the invention of Paypal in the nineties to the smartphone app economy that followed ten years later, this film tells the story of how tech giants brought about the digital payment revolution and formulated a plan to one day kill cash. But is this new world of digital, hyper-fast spending in our interests? And what is really going on behind the scenes?

[The80sweregreat]

You can pay for a round in a pub with a contactless card now - was always cash in my day! Then you cant always track what your spending all the time and it doesnt show up on a statement straight away - just shows as a pound on my statement, then the full amount comes out a few days later on, you might forget then that you spent 40 on petrol or whatever that week. Its all done for a purpose, we are being watched.

[AdoraBell]

OP do you have a link to the piece you read? I’m not being arsey, I would like to read it.

[The80sweregreat]

Whenever you do anything on line now ( thinking about buying insurance or setting up an account for a catalogue) they want to know everything about you - your date of birth and location gives them the knowledge of what kind of person you are - what might interest you and what they can push at you to buy. Anyone can find out the price of their neighbour's or friend's homes - maps are there for people to be found. Every transaction with a bank card is probably looked at very closely - accounts are tracked. our movements are observed on CCTV in most places. I try not to think too much about it to be honest, but I also read on line about cash being a thing of the past and its scary.

[WaitingforGalGadot]

Of course the Government/banks are not going to sell it to people as wanting more control but that is what it is in actuality. Sure it might be easier for some people to pay electronically but it is basically a way for the Government to have all encompassing powers over people and being able to influence how people spend or save their money, the way they vote and the way they think.

A really evil Government could restrict access to peoples bank savings or just appropriate it or make sure it is impossible to save by introducing negative interest rates. It is very nefarious.

Just imagine what would happen if one day you cannot access your account because the Government has deemed you guilty of some crime or other and you cannot use cash. You are basically fucked. It's very very Orwellian.

[KidLorneRoll]

Wow, the paranoia is strong here, isn't it?