AIBU To think the school should’ve contacted me

[Bigboobielou]

To think if a child leaves a note for a teacher at school about a genuine concern that they should contact the child’s DM!?

My DS (8 yr old) has been anxious and cranky for weeks. I’d put it down to a fallout he had with his best friend but after I sat down with him tonight to have a chat about his moodiness, he broke down and admitted he was concerned about his Dad/my stbxh saying horrible things about me in his presence.

My stbxh has told my DS not to tell me about anything he says about me, and it’s been causing my DS much distress. My DS is very sensitive as it is.

It later transpired that my DS left a note about this for a teacher at school and it’s gone completely ignored! My DS says he left it on the desk and watched the teacher pick it up. The teacher didn’t talk to my DS about the note or the concerns he has and they have failed to contact me! I’ve checked his backpack and the parent/teacher portal online and nothing! I’m fuming about this.

Is this normal school procedure or am I right to think this is very concerning?

Depending on what was wrote in the note, the DSL at the school should have been informed. They will then need to contact their local MASH team (or equivalent)

It could be they have been told to monitor the situation at school as the note didn't imply the child was in danger.

It will also be flagged up if the child is known to any services already. If there is a Cafcass Report in place then he will be known and this will all go towards his case so to speak (if reported)

However if the school haven't done anything then I'd be wanting to know why it wasn't followed up.

If this had happened yesterday then I'd say wait until Monday, however as it happened 3 weeks ago, they are either observing him and his behaviour or have done nothing. Your Mash team (or equivalent) either advise straight away on the phone or call you back. I had to report a concern about a child at nursery and they had to check then call back. It took about an hour, so not a three week wait either.

Go in Monday and ask to speak to the Teacher. Be calm and see what she has to say. If she/he hasn't escalated any action then ask to speak to the DSL of the school. Are they aware of the history of DV from your ex?

And yes, the Teacher should have acknowledged with the child that she had read the note and that he can continue to talk to her, however she cannot promise to keep it a secret as she needs to be able to help him and may have to tell others to do so.

This can all be done while the DSL is dealing with the note.

And yes, the Teacher should have acknowledged with the child that she had read the note and that he can continue to talk to her, however she cannot promise to keep it a secret as she needs to be able to help him and may have to tell others to do so.
That's what I would have done.

It may be that the teacher has missed that it's a note (my desk is full of odd bits if paper, spare worksheets etc)
It could be that they've read it and sought advice from the safeguarding lead

I wouldn't be fuming with the school.
I would tell the DC that they can talk to adults at school and sometimes they need to do some work quietly about it before deciding what to do. Then i'd call the school and let them know you are aware.

But remember yhis is not their fault. It is your ex's fault.

Teachers are NOT instructed to NEVER initiate a conversation with a child over safeguarding concerns. Yes, they are taught how to ask questions and encourage a child to talk without asking leading questions or putting words into a child's mouth. But if a child left a note the teacher wouldn't be told to ignore it or not talk to the child about it. So maybe the teacher has talked to your child about the letter in an indirect or roundabout subtle way and he just hasn't realised she has because she was subtle about it. 8 yer olds aren't always that clued in to the subtleties of adult conversations.

However, if the safeguarding issue was regarding a parent you probably wouldn't be contacted about it. It will have been logged on the school system as a concern and when concerns reach a certain level or number contact with social services will be initiated. They don't need to contact you if you are part of the concern.

I wouldn't raise it with the school because you don't even know the teacher read it. Even if they read it, it is unlikely that your DS can remember exactly what he wrote 3 weeks ago. The message DS was trying to convey would probably not come across to a teacher who does not understand the context. Though it is a good point that if it came across at all, they could have spoken to him to clarify.

Even if the teacher did understand it, which I think is unlikely, I still don't think they should have said anything to you.

If DS said something to school about you being nasty, for example you told him off or whatever, and the teacher got straight on the blower to report it to stbxh, I think you would be annoyed at that and feel undermined.

This sort of thing has to be dealt with through the proper channels. If this is considered a child protection issue, it should be reported to the relevant authorities. They can't be involving themselves in parental disputes willy nilly. The information has to be handled sensitively because they can't be seen to be taking sides.

^ I think you have mixed up 'parental disputes' with emotional abuse of a child.

I don't know how feasible this is but this scenario occurred to me -

Are the school aware of the history of DV with your exp? I am thinking that possibly due to the content of the note describing the problem and the instruction to your DS from exp to not tell mum, they may be concerned for your welfare as well as the fall out for DS that he's told someone, and they have not told you for this reason, and reported concerns externally which are yet to be acted upon? Three weeks does seem a long time but we all know how stretched all services are right now.

bastardkitty
The poster you refer to has already said it could be a child protection issue.
This sort of thing has to be dealt with through the proper channels. If this is considered a child protection issue, it should be reported to the relevant authorities. They can't be involving themselves in parental disputes willy nilly.

Without knowing:
A) The teacher saw the note
B) What the note said

Nobody can say for sure what school should have done. We can say what shoild have happened if the note clearly disclosed a safeguarding issue and the teacher read it but we can't sot and judge the school based on thr OP's information on the situation. The situation is emotionally abusive to the poor child, but we have no idea what the note actually said either.

It's a horrible situation but the facts aren't clear enough to comment for sure on the school's actions.

Since your poor ds's note talked about his concerns specifically during contact with his dad, I wonder if school have contacted your ex to talk about it? Although also confused as to why nothing was acknowledged to ds or to you.

If we rang the advice front desk of our MASH to describe this unfortunately I don't think they would do much if anything, the bar for stepping in to protect is shockingly high and the services overwhelmed by needs in that bracket. The family liaison officer would be all over supporting ds though

If a child passed me a note disclosing something like this - I would informally say something like 'I got your note - thank you, you were right to tell a grown up' I might say 'can you tell me more about it' and I would say something like 'I need to share this with another adult at this school' I work in the office not in a classroom, but as its a small school I have a lot of contact with children.

I don't know what happens next as I would then pass it on to the designated safeguarding lead who would take over.

I definitely wouldn't be calling up the parents and saying this was disclosed. It might discourage the child from feeling they were able to speak to someone at school. - remember dad had told your son not to tell mum. If we tell mum the child might feel betrayed. you might call dad and shout at him, dad might beat him up as a result and the child would think it was all because he told!

In your situation I would call the school and ask to speak to the designated safeguarding lead. I would also bear in mind that the note might not have been read, or the note was not as clear as your 8 year old thinks. It might have said 'I feel sad about mummy and daddy' and the teacher thought - oh yes because of the divorce and just patted him on the back and kept an eye on him.

I would explain calmly that your child has told you they passed a note to their teacher disclosing this information. you child is anxious and upset and your child doesn't feel that anyone is school followed it up and eventually broke down and told you.

I would calmly ask if they had followed this up through their own safeguarding procedures. I am not sure if you would be able to see any forms or not - but they should be able to tell you the process. If you feel the process wasn't followed I would contact the governor responsible for safeguarding and ask them to investigate the effectiveness of safeguarding procedures in the school.

As for your son, poor, poor little mite. I hope that things start to improve for him.

I suspect the teacher hasn't read it. Until it is established that he has definitely read it, all the teacher-flaming should stop. Getting worked up and fuming about something you think someone has or hadn't done is a huge waste of energy that could be spent addressing the issues with your DS and his dad. Hold fire until you know for sure.

Try not to go in all guns blazing, which I know is difficult in situations like this. Ask the teacher if they received the letter that DS left. I know DS may have thought he saw the teacher reading it but it may have been something else. I am guilty if have a messy desk. I find pictures/cute notes from children weeks after they put them there, after reading this now I'm going to make an effort to tidy it incase anybody leaves me something like that.

In our school we have been instructed not to initiate conversation in situations like your DS, we would have to pass it onto safeguarding. Sometimes safeguarding team will have a conversation with the child (usually in a roundabout way, not too many direct questions so child may not know its relating to their diaclosure). Sometimes they'll contact the parent to clarify what the child has told them and let them know it is not acceptable (in this case, they'd contact the dad). Safeguarding issues are also sorted in order of urgency. There are usually several safeguarding concerns a day at our school, so if there are children disclosing physical/sexual assault, they'll get sorted out first. I'm not trying to defend the school, just giving some reasonable explanations as to why you have not heard anything.

I hope everything gets sorted out soon for you and your Ds.

Haven't RTFT but maybe the school have followed this so subtly your DS hasn't noticed.

Our old primary did little craft classes in groups of 5 or 6, but during the class the teacher would chat about school, lessons, how the pupils were coping. To the kids they did a craft class.

Also, I doubt the school would have informed you. How do they know you aren't doing the same? They have to treat both parents equally, or what if the school had contacted your H?

You (should) follow this up but remember they may not share any information.

It’s not true that teachers are barred from talking to children if they disclose something to you. Those posters saying it’s leading the child - that only happens if the teacher asks leading questions, rather than open questions that allow the child to explain what has actually happened. The teacher should then just take accurate notes and pass them on to the safeguarding lead (more often than not the HT in a primary). I know this through direct experience where a child disclosed she was being hit at home with a stick. All I could was take the notes and pass them on. The police became involved and all was resolved.

On this occasion the teacher may not have realised it was from your son - for example if there’s more than one Jake in the class or whatever, your son may not have made the note clear, the teacher may have felt more comfortable passing it on etc.

Either you should make an appointment with the safeguarding lead - and go with your child or encourage him to approach either his teacher or the safeguarding lead to discuss this with them.

I’d avoid kicking off at your ex as it could potentially endanger your son. You say he has a history of DV and therefore presumably a short fuse. I doubt he’d take well to his son disobeying him.

This thread is a depressing read - the number of posters determined to defend the idea that a teacher could reasonably not respond to a child in this situation. (And yes, of course we don't know if the teacher actually read it - has been said so many times it barely needs restating.)

Surely one of the first principles of safeguarding is to create a safe environment for children to disclose. Ignoring a child who is communicating distress cannot ever be good practice. I'm really disturbed by how many people are suggesting it is.

As for the people telling OP - a survivor of DV - that this is between her and her ex, and nothing to do with the school... No, the school has a legal and moral responsibility here, and shifting blame back onto the OP is wrong and cruel.

Schools don't always get this right, and sometimes 'safeguarding procedures' are misunderstood or wrongly cited to defend poor practice. I have an example, though not as serious as OP's: my dd, who lacks resilience and had been bullied through most of primary, was chosen to join a small group run by the EP for 'vulnerable girls' in Y6. This information was communicated to me via an open letter which was handed to my dd in class. Which was, of course, seized and read by the bullies, and used for further bullying. The class teacher refused to accept she had done anything wrong, insisting, "We have a responsibility to tell you these things". Yes, but common sense would also suggest an envelope, or an email? I know they meant well, but their defensiveness and lack of thoughtfulness did them no credit. Inevitably, my dd refused to join the group.

People are clearly missing/ignoring/not understanding your posts. Your DH is the problem, yes. He is being dealt with through the courts and has caused this. But YANBU to be concerned that your DS disclosed CP info to a teacher who hasn't then followed it up or be seen to have supported your DS in any way. Definitely contact the school and ask why this was and what they will do in future to fully support DS esp being aware of your circumstances. Sounds like you're doing all the right things to me.

Ketzele thank God! I thought I was going nuts reading these weird posts minimizing the teacher's behaviour!

CheapSausagesAndSpam

nothing weird or minimising about trying to explain possible reactions from the teacher without knowing what has been done, instead of concluding that the teacher must have done nothing.

nothing weird or minimising about trying to explain possible reactions from the teacher without knowing what has been done, instead of concluding that the teacher must have done nothing.
This ^^

All people are doing is outline a range of potential situations and possible responses in a way that is calm and measured given that nobody knows what the note said, whether it was read or what may or may not have been done.

Even if as a teacher I read a note that very clearly disclosed a serious safeguarding issue, I would NOT be discussing it with home at all. (I'd reassure the child that I've passed it on, make it clear they can talk to me but that I would need to share information to keep them safe etc but would not in any way be contacting home about it)

But it's a school thread on MN so obviously there's only one appropriate reaction and that's to be furious,complain and suggest anyone suggesting stopping and reflecting must be minimising horrific school behaviour.

OP you need to calm down, the teacher most likely didn't even read the note in the first place.

Have a meeting in the school and explain the situation. Don't go in all guns blazing or accusing the teacher of not doing anything.

Suggest they have a worry box put in school, where children can post letters of any concerns they have that will be checked daily.

No I don't miss the point at all op. You said yourself you sat down with him and he told you what the problem was. Then you said it later transpired he left a note on the desk.

The teacher may have been too busy to read it. She probably gets little notes from kids all the time. She's not psychic either.

MaisyPops, a calm and measured response would have been to agree with the OP that a child disclosing to a teacher should always receive a response, discuss why this may not have happened, and give advice on how to follow up with the school.

What is not calm and measured is to suggest that the OP - a victim of DV - should not be troubling the school with what is an issue for her and her ex, to imply that it can ever be reasonable not to provide a simple human response to a child in distress, or to suggest that anyone who agrees that this doesn't sound ideal is on some hysterical school-trashing rampage. I find your characterisation of MN school threads strange as what I often see - on other threads as well as this one - is posters rushing to typify any parent who criticises a school as 'THAT parent'.

OP you need to calm down, the teacher most likely didn't even read the note in the first place.

No. OP does not need to calm down. This is serious and the school need to use it to rethink their safeguarding structure. The child made a disclosure and the teacher ignored it. If they picked up the note and didn't read it that is as bad. We need to encourage our children to disclose bad things to safe people and this school has let the child down so they need to know and redress their thinking.

OP, I'm sorry this thread has not been more helpful to you at this difficult time. Good luck in taking it forward.

I agree with Ketzele, I also find on MN that posters making any kind of negative comment about one of their DCs' teachers is immediately laid into as 'that parent', a term I really detest. As if parents shouldn't worry about things that their DC is upset about and are not allowed to even question whether the teacher might on this particular occasion have got it wrong.