AIBU to be furious about this article and cancel my Guardian subscription?

[whycantwegoonasthree]

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/30/children-removed-from-family-home-over-parents-open-relationship

The children weren't removed because of their parents 'open relationship', they were removed because the parents were neglectful and didn't safeguard the children. The headline is a deliberate distortion.

This is a dreadful baity headline/article at the expense of the polyamorous community. I expect better from the guardian - to which I pay a f-ing subscription...

AIBU to cancel my Direct Debit?

MrLoveBucket - first thread started 7/3/16. Second started 17/3/16 after MNHQ refused request for a board and suggested starting a thread in parenting.

And ok, so it was not quite 2 years ago, not 3. What can I say. I've been busy...

And MrLoveBucket this is literally the first para from the first post on the second thread:

After the long running thread in AIBU (and the havoc that ensued) MNHQ said they didn't think there was sufficient interest for a board (boo hiss MNHQ) but suggested I start a long-running thread instead, so here it is!

A continuation, then yes?

Why wouldn't you have a frank discussion about sharing time? It's far more complicated than the sex part, actually.

You said your dc asked your partner if he minded being shared. You said you/he were very ‘frank’ with them. Not ringing true for me I’m afraid, not a subject that needs being ‘frank’ about is it

Exactly. Backtracking, minimising, or plain forgetting what had written again.

Stop it. Just stop with the justifications and the bullshit and the "oh I can't tell one year from three because I'm just sooooooo busy".

Go to bed like you planned. Rest easy if you can.

Well, it's a fairly unneccessary sort of article. Unfortunately, there are quite a lot of inadequate or harmful parents whose children would be better off elsewhere, so I'm not at all sure that this particular case is 'news' for any reason other than to spin it as 'Eww, wierd people who don't do monogamy are therefore terrible parents.' There are plenty of monogamous couples who mistreat their children to the point that the children need to be removed by the authorities.

They have asked my partner - whom they know also has another partner, if he minds being 'shared' and things like that. To which they have recieved a frank and open answer. They haven't asked me if I am shared with others too, but if they did I would tell them honestly. And if they ask questions regarding sex, they will get a very sex-positive answer

Sorry op, looks nothing like you are talking about ‘time’ there at all. Like, not even remotely.

The part where you say you will give ‘sex-positive’ answers to children’s questions made chills run up my spine.

It is possible to be frank about things other than sex. Believe it or not.

In this instance it was frank regarding the fact that sometimes it's hard as DP could sometimes do with being in two places at once. And sometimes he doesn't get as much time with either partner as he'd like, and that sometimes it's a problem when everyone wants to different things at the same time, and sometimes people get upset.

But that mostly he likes that he gets to different things with mummy than he does with K. Mummy likes sailing and galleries for example, and K likes skiing and eating out, and it's great because he likes all those things... And it's nice that we all get along so well and can do things together that we all enjoy sometimes.

All that info in response to questions from DD2, btw.

Yeah sure, whatever you say

A bit intrigued though. Why do you say you’d have to be equally frank/honest when they ask you if you ‘are shared with others’ (your own words there)

Do they not get much of your time? Why is your time requiring a frank discussion with your children?

21 months or thereabouts MrLoveBucket. Since you're so desperate to be accurate apart from where you've been disagreed with.

I thought it was longer ago than that, but it doesn't really matter. I'm hardly 'constantly' posting about this. Once, (or twice if you refuse to concede that thread 2 was a continuation of thread 1) every 21 months is hardly constant.

If the headline hasn't changed the article still picks out a click-bait factor and then uses it to steer the flow of said article without giving a well-rounded explanation for the real reasons the children were removed from their parents' care. Not great but that is what journalism seems to be about these days.

I think the point is if it had been a single parent family and the issues raised in the article had been the same, i.e. single mother bringing strangers home for sex and neglecting children or single father going out clubbing and sleeping with multiple partners and neglecting children the headline would likely not have been "Children removed after parent's single-status contributes to neglect". It would (rightly) be seen as an unjustified attack on single parents.

I am not attacking single parents but there are probably instances of children having been removed from a parent's custody over neglect issues where that parent has brought strangers home for sex and because there isn't a stigma attached to being single it would be glossed over.

I have no first-hand experience of polyamoury and am not trying to impose my views on anyone but I don't necessarily feel that the article focuses on relevant points. Children were neglected which shouldn't happen. Children were put at unnecessary risk which shouldn't happen. The mother had mental health issues for which she did not accept treatment and learning difficulties. Having read the judgement I am not sure it is an open relationship, it looks like the man was sleeping around and the woman decided to do the same. It seems more like open cheating.

They may well ask me if I share time with others. And if they do I will tell them yes, a bit.

If they ask me at some pint in the future if I have sex with other people, I will say yes, two. Questions arising thereafter will either get answered honestly if not answered depending on whether they're appropriate and reasonable questions or not.

I have them 50% of their time, as I share custody with their father. They get plenty of my attention when they're here. What I do with the rest makes no odds to them.

Exactly my point starwarsfanatic. Thanks for bringing things back on topic!!

I thought you said you would be honest?

If they ask me at some pint in the future if I have sex with other people, I will say yes, two

Well, that’s not honest is it? In this thread alone you’ve numbered more than that. Not that it matters, but you seem fervently determined to be completely ‘age-appropriately’ honest.

So why lie?

If you are truly happy living with one man and shagging a few others will you be encouraging your dc to shag around when s/he becomes interested in having a girl/boyfriend and, ultimately, sex.

Or will you be advising your dc to settle down with partner who is devoted only to them and always puts them first??

Which message will you send them -

a. That they should expect to be used and abused if they are not on the same sexual wavelength as the partner they have chosen to spend the rest of their life (and children) with

b. That they are special people who are worthy of love and consideration and should only settle for a partner that shows them love, respect, kindness and loyalty. A person who will solely care about his/her family (partner and children) and will cherish them and look after them as a family unit? Forsaking all others....

We all know things do not always work to plan. I'm just wondering what sort of motherly advice you will give to your children when they are of an age for relationships and adult life. What will your advice to them be OP?

Missmustbeamug - By 'other' people I mean people other than DP. And at present that's two.

If you are truly happy living with one man and shagging a few others

I don't think OP lives with him, he lives with his wife from what I understand. Happy to be corrected by OP (if she remembers).

Why would you tell them though? If it’s truly as you say and you aren’t impacting on their life by getting them involved with the ‘others’ you are having sex with then why would they need to know?

What would they witness that would make them ever ask if you were having sex with other people?

CharlesDickens - we are living proof that those are not the only two options.

I would probably say that monogamy is the norm, and works for a lot of people. But it's not the only way - and hopefully you've seen that mummy and DP can have had a loving a committed relationship for many years, whilst also having other relationships which have been/are important to us too.

That it's quite a busy way to live and it can be complicated.

And that they should spend their time with people who care for them and are positive influences in their life. And create their lives in ways and shape that work for them and those they love.

And be honest with people, always, and communicate often and well. That some relationships last a lifetime and some don't, that you can't always know at the time, but that it's ok. Relationships change, and sometimes end. And that's ok too.

That the happiness of people in a relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

That sex is good, and good for you provided you do it safely and healthily. That they should enjoy their bodies and delight in all the things their bodies can do.

To choose the person they have children with - if they choose to have children - carefully. Because whatever happens you will be co-parents with that person forever.

By which time they're probably wishing they hadn't asked.

DP lives in two houses. More or less 50/50.

Missmustbeamug - I'd tell them if they asked. It possible that they might when they're older, and start putting 2 and 2 together. Or they might not. In which case I won't. I'm not planning on cohabiting with anyone else so it doesn't affect them directly.

That sex is good, and good for you provided you do it safely and healthily. That they should enjoy their bodies and delight in all the things their bodies can do

(not envy)

Yeah I’ll bet they’ll wish they’d never asked. Bleugh.

I have an active/healthy sex life, amazingly never needed or wanted that kind of talk from my Mum. Trust me, they don’t need your sagely input, they’ll figure it out just fine on their own.

I think you may be sorely disappointed. As soon as they hit the mid teen range they won’t want to ask you anything to do with sex, especially not anything about your sex life.

To choose the person they have children with - if they choose to have children - carefully. Because whatever happens you will be co-parents with that person forever.

Interesting point.

Does your ex H know you are in a poly relationship and, if so, what are his views on it?

Fucking Hell OP! Good Luck with that. Your poor children!

Mr Lovebucket. Yes just reading the rest of the thread. It does seem that OP's "main" partner is probably married. And her protests about her only shagging her "main" partner plus one other.....She must have forgotten she wrote this....

whycantwegoonasthree Fri 01-Dec-17 23:52:02
MrLoveBucket. Three years ago or so whenever that last post was, there were just three of us. And we are still primarily a three, but I now have two other loving relationships in my life, although I see them relatively seldom, due to being very busy.

I really feel sorry for the those children. I cant get my head around why OP thinks her lifestyle is suitable for her children. God only knows what her children will make of it.

OP you could have as many partners as you want - married or not if you only had yourself to care about. There are at least two lots of children in these "relationships". You are their role model for Christ's sake!! Put the children first and allow them to grow up with some self respect and values!

Ok even I think the OP is being baited and posters are taking EVERYTHING she says wilfully out of context now. Tis Friday night on AIBU for you I suppose, folk have been at the cooking sherry...

OP, my point was never that polyamory isn't a valid way to live your life; or of necessity harmful for your children. Just want to put some clear blue water between me and your attackers there. Just wanted to suggest (against the grain and possibly a bit counter intuitively) that total honesty with your kids about complicated and I daresay sometimes painful sexual and emotional aspects of your adult life isn't necessarily what's best for them, either now when they're tiny - or even once they're grown up. A lot if parents nowadays, my mum included, seem to take pride in being able to say "oh we're not like mum and daughter/son, they're like my mates". And yes it's nice to be close and open with your kids. But in my experience, what kids need most are parents who are (a) in control of their lives and their kid's lives when they're little and (b) happy and emotionally continent. You may well think your poly relationships allow you to be precisely that. But be aware being "very frank" with your kids about the mechanics/difficulties may not always be what they need, either at this young age or even later on. Growing up is hard; being an adult is hard; I have seem friends with more 'boring', less open parents really feel able to lean on their parents in times of trouble. I love my parents dearly, but I have spent a lot of my life worried about both of them and I wouldn't say either of them have ever made me feel safe, or that as far as they're concerned my needs trump theirs.

I'm not talking about polyamory specifically. Just a suggestion one can be too "honest" with kids about the complications of one's own life, to the detriment of their sense of security and the premature development of a relationship of "equal partners" with parents, when what a child wants from their parent is to be parented, prioritised, and protected.

I do hop that makes sense and I'm sorry you're getting a kicking.