To think this breath-takingly ill-thought-out, regressive, sexist nonsense and is a real danger to children with special needs?

[Betty185]

This is guidance from an NHS organisation in Scotland:

www.centralsexualhealth.org/media/8009/guidance-for-schools-trans-gender-variance.pdf

I draw your attention in particular to page 14 on children with additional support needs:

Please note: by age 2 or 3, a child starts to develop a sense of being a male or female. Some children with a learning disability/additional support needs, however, may not develop gender awareness at the same age and stage as their peers. It is important that children with ASN are actively taught gender identity so that they understand the gender assigned to them at birth.

Conversely, this often requires blatant ‘boy/girl’ activities. However, once a child understands the gender assigned to them at birth, teaching and practice can diversify to include non-stereotypical approaches and allow the child to explore their True Gender identity.

So essentially two and three year olds with special needs should be engaged in activities based on sexist stereotypes until they understand what boys do (play with trainsets, rough-and-tumble games?) and what girls do (dress as pink princesses and play with dolls?). Once they understand what a girl is and what a boy is (circa about the 1950s), they can be encouraged to explore whether they really are a girl or a boy. If they don't fit nicely in with the stereotypes of their sex, they'll be on a path to social transition, puberty blockers, hormones and surgery.

*One of the things I read before about transing kids is that it is possible that this agenda is being pushed with the idea children being able to consent to sexual activity at a younger age. After all if they are equipped to 'consent' to such life changing decisions about their bodies, then surely they are equipped to make other decisions about their bodies (eg. Consenting to sex)

I don't know, it does sound a little far fetched and I don't know who would be behind it, but it did strike me when I read it.*

the "child love" movement has been around for a long time with some very high up advocates. I'm not convinced that this whole movement isn't in part, a way to "weaken" legislation around consent in minors and parents legal ability to decide what happens to their children physically too.

it's pretty gross to try and link being transgender to paedophilia

No one is linking being transgender to paedophilia, they are noticing that weakening safeguarding, consent, and other elements politically has benefits. The PIE movement was real, it hasn't gone away and most of the issues people are raising in concern about self identification and trans ideology is that it is so very easily hijackable by other agendas that would never get through without a lot of sympathy for the human shield of vulnerable trans people.

Read the posts and what they're actually saying. And think too about why your response is, in reading about imposing sexual stereotyping on young children with SEND, with all the appalling misogeny and disablism involved, your only concern is that women discussing it must be perfectly politically correct in their phrasing so as not to be offensive.

Aside from anything else, this is sickening disability discrimination.

If you have a LD or ASN you must be subject to blatant, prescribed sexism in a way your NT peers are not.

For anybody scratching their heads about what intersectionality really means, this is it: it's a unique intersection between sex and disability discrimination.

LangCleg

We can only hope that evidence-based practice makes a comeback before too much damage is done.

Absolutely. The blithe dismissal of inconvenient evidence really worries me.

"It is important that children with ASN are actively taught gender identity so that they understand the gender assigned to them at birth."

This is child abuse. It's so abusive. ASD girls are already hugely socially and institutionally coerced to "perform gender". They already get a metric ton of shit when they display intensely systematic and programmatic thought processes, passionate interests, ordering and categorisation pursuits - they are already told they have a "male brain" (thanks Baron Cohen!!). They are already crushed during puberty under the complexities and hypocrises of adolescent socialisation of girls. There's really NO SHORTAGE of coercive gender identity training being done to ASD girls though they had had some success at catching a break pre-puberty until now.

ASD women have been trying to STOP this bullshit for YEARS and nobody has listened. And now they're going to double down and tell ASD girls they ARE really boys and further pathologise, medicalise, and STERILISE them? God it's just so sick. How can gay organisations collude in this when they know, they KNOW what it is like to have this done to them? Gay men were chemically castrated in this country within living memory - how can they support doing it to non-conforming children? I cannot understand it at all. I'm horrified.

Why are they being allowed to do this to the most vulnerable children? Does nobody have a fucking backbone? This government is disgraceful, but Labour are no better so who can we look to? Who? Will no one defend children? And all these orgs when you look into it turn out to be government created and funded; I fully blame the government for their behaviour. For some reason, these craven fools will do anything to pander to "right on" activists that THEY ARE FUNDING. It's just absolutely mad. It's mad!

Koloh

Brilliant post.

Koloh

That’s a incredibly powerful comment.

No-one is listening. It’s profoundly worrying.

Link below to a thread about an open letter to Labour to try and make them take notice that they are not supporting their members.

Different issue, but part and parcel of the same thing. They are encouraging comments on the thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101669-A-Spartacus-letter-re-Jo-Cox-Leadership

Koloh brilliant post. That should be an open letter.

Is there anything that TRA cult can do that is so heinous that someone won't find a way to defend them? It really is mind boggling, that someone can read this thread and immediately find a way to post a variation on 'omg! you're all so transphobic'.

This is very weird. We'll push a SN child with say autism into blatant boy/girl’ activities which they may not enjoy due to the nature of their condition or they just don't like it and then when they reach an age where they can say " I don't want to do activity X" encourage them to explore their "True Gender identity".
We are being governed by lunatics I am seriously starting to think there's a weird strand of the left that are actually more dangerous to the fabric of society than the right.
"Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad".

Also look out for vulnerable kids being exposed to this:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gather-round-class-thomas-the-teddy-wants-to-be-a-girl-jlrzjn27k?shareToken=4dcb4fe391ff30936eaa626915205674

I think the point about imposing adult worries on children is well made.

Is there anything that TRA cult can do that is so heinous that someone won't find a way to defend them? It really is mind boggling, that someone can read this thread and immediately find a way to post a variation on 'omg! you're all so transphobic'.

I don't think it gets any more horrendous than pushing kids with disabilities towards being sterilized to be quite honest. They are encouraging eugenics of kids with special needs, along with gay eugenics (as most gender non-conforming kids without blockers would just turn out to be gay, where once shoved on blockers near 100% go onto cross sex hormones). And its widely supported and anyone who questions it is 'transphobic' Absolutely batshit.

Whaaat? This is nonsense!

As someone else said upthread, if I was a teenager now I'd probably think I was transgender. I was not traditionally feminine, and was very politicised. And impressionable, and keen to rebel. It's awful what children these days are being taught.

Let's NOT teach these regressive social roles, and keep toys and activities genderless FFS!

I could sort of understand this if there really was a way for children to change sex - so if a child wanted to be a girl/boy and could actually become one, fine, encourage it.

For example a girl can become a mathematician or car mechanic, great, encourage it (encourage it for boys also, obviously). A boy can become a nurse, great, brilliant, if a boy says "I want to be a nurse", help them apply for a nursing course.

But a boy cannot become a girl (or vice versa), no matter how much they want to. At best early transition produces a non-boy, a person who after having hormone treatment and cosmetic surgery looks a bit like a girl. A side effect of that treatment/surgery is that they will be more than likely asexual and definitely infertile.

Telling them they can change gender is cruel. You might as well tell them they can become a cat, or Buzz Lightyear, it's just as true.

We all bring up our children to be the best they can be, we all want our children to have all the opportunities open to them, but to bring up children to have expectations that are physically impossible is to set them up for disappointment.

A girl doesn't have to become a man to be a mathematician or car mechanic, a boy doesn't have to change sex. While there may be largely subliminal societal pressure putting them off there is no legal impediment against and there are many people working in "gender" atypical jobs.

Maryz there is definitely a perception among some teenagers that they actually CAN change sex. One of my daughters who has a female partner was approached at school by another girl who also has a female partner to ask which one of them was having a sex change when they were older so that they could have children! This girl believed that upon having the sex change she would be able to father children. I have managed to get through to my daughter that this is not the case, however when she then tried to educate the other girl, the other girl was adamant that I was wrong as she had 'read something on the internet'. Having read that guidance I can only conclude that people have made it into the adult world retaining such erroneous beliefs. Horrendous.

It upsets me that when this all blows up, it's people like us who will get the blame!

That's my worry WTAF.

It's ridiculous, but they seem to believe that if they want it enough they can actually become the other sex [baffled]. The crappy "womb transplant" articles in the newspapers don't help.

And no-one seems to be disabusing them of this idea.

Of course they are confused. All the oblique reporting of "Gay man has baby with partner". When really this is a heterosexual couple, one of whom wishes to be the opposite sex and conception happened the boring old fashioned way but is dressed up as amazing progression in human reproduction and isn't nature so wild and mysterious and unknowable bollocks and young people are being it fed constantly.

Actually it's not even just the youth who are confused. My very intelligent mum was convinced that a man had actually had a baby because she was not versed in TA double think and had read an article about a "man having a baby" and took it literally without realising that the article was actually refering to a female with a functioning female reproductive system (because reality was never even refered to).

I think the confusion is deliberate and purposeful - society is being gamed and whatever the motivation is for it, you can bet your non-binary bottoms that it is not for the good of the many.

Actually it's not even just the youth who are confused. My very intelligent mum was convinced that a man had actually had a baby because she was not versed in TA double think and had read an article about a "man having a baby" and took it literally without realising that the article was actually refering to a female with a functioning female reproductive system (because reality was never even refered to).

Yup, I have heard a fair few adults going on about the 'miracles of science; and such whenever a 'man has a baby/is pregnant' stories hit the news. Once I point out that its a bloody female person (obviously) they change to 'well why is this news, females are pregnant all of the time'. Yes, quite.

I'm so glad this nonsense wasn't around when I was a child. I was a very black-and-white thinker and got upset when the clothes I picked out had 'Boys' written on the label - because I was a girl, and I liked and wanted to wear those clothes, so the label was wrong. If someone had told me that maybe it was right and I was really a boy inside I'd have been so confused.

I'm now an early years educator and actively challenge sexist stereotypes. Lots of small children, both those with SN and without, can have very rigid thinking. I've often been told 'Jane can't wear Batman socks because she's a girl' when Jane is clearly wearing said socks, and other similar things by three-year-olds. I always, always respond by saying that both boys and girls can wear and play with whatever they like best. Telling children otherwise is absurdly regressive.

Training children with special needs in gender stereotypes is particularly horrendous. If they're unaware of them and are happy choosing the things they like regardless of gender, why would anyone actively want to change that?

Horrifying.

My daughter is another who assumed that science had somehow found a way to change the actual sex of humans. She's 15 and allegedly reasonably bright, but the constant 'of course so-and-so is a Real Boy' and the swapping around of the terms sex and gender has its effect if you start it young, it seems.

I really hope that the transgender kids (yes, more than one) at her school do in fact know that they can't become the opposite sex, no matter what procedures they go through. But presumably transgenderism doesn't selectively fall on only the ones who were listening in biology lessons.

The writer does not know the ordinary English meanings of "conversely" or "blatant"

How can gay organisations collude in this when they know, they KNOW what it is like to have this done to them? Gay men were chemically castrated in this country within living memory - how can they support doing it to non-conforming children?

Trans activists have cleverly aligned themselves to LGB rights and frequently draw parallels to the struggles of other rights movements which sound good on the surface but don't really survive any scrutiny (which is why their motto is 'no debate').

Gay conversion therapy is rightly now viewed as abhorrent so trans activists say that any attempts by counsellors to discuss the issues causing a young person to identify as trans is trying to 'convert' a trans person and is the same as gay conversion therapy. In reality, gay and lesbian kids - along with autistic kids - are disproportionately identifying as trans and are being given harmful drugs which will sterilise them (along with a host of other problems) in order to 'convert' them into gender-conforming heterosexuals. It is actually the new gay conversion therapy but is being branded as progressive.

You also have to understand that, while some LGB people have bought into this as just an extension of LGB rights (I did initially, until I saw in practice what was happening and finally got to hear the coherent arguments of those who were challenging what was going on which made sense of what I was seeing), many LGB people are outraged by this - but we are no longer in control of the LGBT organisations and no dissent is allowed within them.

Why are they being allowed to do this to the most vulnerable children? Does nobody have a fucking backbone? This government is disgraceful, but Labour are no better so who can we look to? Who? Will no one defend children? And all these orgs when you look into it turn out to be government created and funded; I fully blame the government for their behaviour. For some reason, these craven fools will do anything to pander to "right on" activists that THEY ARE FUNDING. It's just absolutely mad. It's mad!

Yes, I think there is a tendency to think that the most 'out there' transactivist views are a minority of extremists on social media but, while they by no means represent all trans people (there are a number of brave, vocal trans people who speak up on this) these people are the 'mainstream' now - They are in charge of the LGBT organisations, they are being funding by government and charities like Children In Need, are advising health services, schools and government policy - while other voices (including long established experts on these issues) are being excluded.

Transgender Trend ( www.transgendertrend.com ) is a group of parents who are challenging the current narrative on transing children: www.transgendertrend.com/about_us/