To be surprised that M&S has a section on their website for Modest Clothing?

[Scabbersley]

here

What's that all about then? Why does it warrant its own category?

I noticed that section as I was buying frim their "sexy" lingerie section 😀

@Solasum
Skinny jeans can be way less modest than a short skirt.

They show off your legs, thighs, hips and bum and leave pretty much nothing to the imagination. So i have no idea why they would be classified as modest. Having said that ive seen loads of girls "modestly" covering their hair but lining and glossing their lips which i dont really get either

The use of the word "modest" only seems to offend those who dont need to use it!

In Orthodox Judaism women are required to be "modest", it is stated as such in their religious texts and laws. That is the term they use, so it stands to reason that a clothing line aimed at those women will be called by the same name.

Leggings can be perfectly modest worn under loose flowing tunics ec. when worn as leg coverings rather than an alternative for trousers.

I noticed that section as I was buying frim their "sexy" lingerie section 😀

I didn't believe M&S actually had this until I did a search on their website... But yes, this. Having a "sexy" lingerie section doesn't imply that the rest of their lingerie is by default "unsexy". But it does allow women whose primary motivation for going lingerie shopping at that particular moment is "looking sexy" to search for what they want within defined limits without having to trawl through pages and pages of aggressively sensible plain white bras which were never, ever going to be viable options. I presume the rationale for "modest" clothing as a section is similar.

I like that red polo neck jumper. 😳
That is all.

I don't know. I think it's quite handy to have a handy search tag for high neck/not form fitting. I don't like that sort of thing to make any particular point, I like that it doesn't tend to have the pitfalls that fashion cut clothes tend to have - tops riding up/not being able to cover up my monster bra straps/struggling to get things to accommodate boobs in general.

The use of the word "modest" only seems to offend those who dont need to use it!

It also offends those who don't want to use it, but are pressured to do so, because it casts what they want to wear as "immodest".

And the clothes described as "modest" are only one interpretation of what "modest" means, but it fossilises it and means women with a different interpretation of "modest" get left out in the cold, or bullied to conform.

Quite, Pyongyang.
The Qur'an requires women and men to dress "modestly".
There have been "modest wear" blogs for donkeys years. The name just stuck.

Does everyone have a problem with "modesty panels" too? Coz I've never heard anyone complaining about that term. Or is it just people don't like religious women wearing what they want if it doesn't fit in with their particular femenism?

If all that's needed is a "handy hashtag" that doesn't mean anything in real life, then there'd be no problem changing the term "modest" for the term "restrictive", would there? You all be on board for that? It's just a word, after all.

Modest?

Argh.

How about people look for styles of clothes they like that don't have a weird morally judgemental name?
I don't dress with my tits out or so tight there's definition around my genitals (although it would help with the constant misgendering ) and I call that "clothes".... modest, proper value judgement.

I'm guessing men have a "too old for jeans" section and "can't get it up" range?

As well as it being the well-known term for this style at the moment, why on earth, as a retailer, wouldn't you market your product to appeal to the actual people who might want to buy it?

Bit out, you took the words out of my mouth. Exactly. Why blame M&S for a term that's been invented already by the fashion industry or the media and seems to have become an accepted part of fashion vocabulary.

Or is it just people don't like religious women wearing what they want if it doesn't fit in with their particular femenism?

I am all on board for religious women - and indeed any woman - wearing exactly what they want, whenever they want. What I am not on board with is promoting a term that means some religious women get bullied by other religious women and men for wearing clothes now cast as "immodest".

Modest is actually a term used in fashion isn't it? At least it is on Project Runway

As in

"I'm a sportswear designer"
"I'm a formal wear designer"
"I'm a modest designer"

Its a (biggish) niche the same way sports-casual/ formal/ Street/ edgy / Prom/ Wedding/ Club wear or multiple other categories are.

We watch Project Runway as a family, and last year they had a designer from a strict Christian background who described herself as a modest designer, this season there is a Muslim designer who describes herself the same way. Other designers label themselves as "I'm a Sportswear designer" (Or "Athleisure" which is far more of a made up idea than modest) / "I'm an edgy designer" or whatever they want to describe their comfort zone / style / niche as.

This season's modest designer seems very good so far, and her clothes just happen to cover more skin - some are actually very figure hugging! We're only a third of the way through and her nightwear design was not modest - she stated that modesty only applies to clothes worn in public.

I do find religion and feminism to be at odds.

It's not restrictive though, is it? If anything, I feel more able to move around in a looser fitting top because I'm not worried about flashing my belly/builders bum or my breasts being on show if I bend the wrong way. None of these being things that anyone wants to/needs to see.

Googled 'modest fashion', top 3 results are about it being an Islam religious thing. So M&S are just catering to Muslims. Fine by me.

I happen to disagree with any religion that requires women to be 'modest' because that's just sheer misogyny, but that doesn't mean I want to take choices away from religious women.

What I am not on board with is promoting a term that means some religious women get bullied by other religious women and men for wearing clothes now cast as "immodest".

The term has been used within certain religions/sects for centuries and the judgemental nature of those religions has existed for far longer than M&S and #hashtags have.

not read anything in-between but agree with the OP, a separate section isn't required, just googled it and it would all fit quite nicely in their frumpy Classic section.

I do agree that religion and feminism are usually at odds if you look deep enough.

However I don't think that means there is any more wrong with labelling a niche clothing section "modest" than there is with labelling it "sexy", "casual" or "relaxed" - it doesn't mean people choosing from other sections are not modest, not sexy, not casual or relaxed...or that those things cannot be combined.

The world is full of sexism but some things aren't it.

It's not restrictive though, is it?

It's not "modest" either, though, is it, DeepPileTinsel? Modesty, like restrictiveness, is in the eye of the beholder. If it's just a "handy hashtag" then it's accuracy shouldn't matter.

The term has been used within certain religions/sects for centuries and the judgemental nature of those religions has existed for far longer than M&S and #hashtags have.

So? Should we get on board with things that promote bullying just because others have done it for years?

And the thing is, everyone who uses the term "modest" means something slightly different, including all the religions you mentioned, and all the individuals within those religions. Having a major high street retailer ossify what "modest" means really doesn't help religious women who maybe don't want to wear three layers up to the chin in the height of summer.

I hadn't heard of "modest" clothing as an actual category before, but I can understand why it has become a search term. Some people will want to cover up for religious reasons, others may just want warm winter clothes! It was a freezing walk to school this morning - those high neck jumpers are looking pretty good to me at the moment!

But as posie says, religion and feminism don't necessarily go hand in hand. We shouldn't be assuming that every woman dressing in a certain way due to religious beliefs is doing so at the demand of their husband/father/brother however.

Aren't Jewish men also meant to dress modestly actually? Probably is meant to apply to men as much as women in most other religions that make a big deal of modesty, but that is just conveniently forgotten.

There should be a modest men's section too, especially if it's a ten minute bit of web site curating not different clothes.