To be surprised that M&S has a section on their website for Modest Clothing?

[Scabbersley]

here

What's that all about then? Why does it warrant its own category?

scanty

adjective
1.
small or insufficient in quantity or amount.
synonyms: meagre, scant, minimal, limited, modest, restricted, spars

Is it really voluntary to dress to please god?

I mean, we know what god wants because of some scriptures written down by men, many hundreds of years ago!

Hmm less clothing is less practical in very hot climates than being swathed in the right choice of material. Doesn't apply to British summer obviously, but desert nomads of both sexes cover entirely for practical reasons!

Religious clothing laws very much affect men as well as women. For example in ultra-orthodox Judaism there is shatnez, the prohibition against mixed fibres. Men will have sidelocks/sidecurls and wear a special fringed garment.

Who cares who wrote the scriptures, why can't an individual believe what he or she want to believe? Just because you don't believe doesn't mean people who believe and abide them are stupid.

Trust me they do not melt in their swathed clothes in British summer, all these things you just assume. Assuming the women are wrong or stupid to wear what they wear. It's not.

If it means covering up most of yourself apart from your face and hands, i’d say i’m dressed pretty modestly most days. 62 is hardly an age at which to flaunt large expanses of bare (crepey) skin, even if our climate permitted it.

I've been judged for wearing a tshirt and jeans when heavily pregnant by a big group of ladies who were wearing full burkas - they took one look at me when I tried to sit down near them at Westfield and quite deliberately moved up so there was no room left on the bench. I've also been called a "white slag" by a group of young girls wearing headscarves who tried to jostle me into the traffic in east London, I presume for wearing a miniskirt and boots.

So yep, I know it's not nice to be judged for what you wear. It just seems odd to me that anyone would voluntarily choose to wear something that is so associated with oppression and violence against women in other countries - e.g. The punishments meted out to women by fanatics for not being fully veiled. Why would god want women to cover themselves? It would be great if anyone here had the knowledge to answer this accurately as I'd like to educate myself.

Rebecca you were judged by two sets of indecent women, it's irrelevant what they were wearing. Statement like this implies burka is wrong or headscarves are wrong.
I'm sorry about the incidents, I know how it feels.

I’ve got no problem with m&s marketing some of their clothing in this way. But the use of the word ‘modest’ is badly judged, covered’ would work just as well and make it clear what the section of clothing offers.

I bet you than the equivalent m&s men’s clothing with long sleeves, loose-fitting items is not marketed as ‘modest’ clothing. And so this is just another example of how women and their clothing & bodies are viewed and judged in our society in a way completely different to men’s bodies. ...Feminist rant over!

Well no, I don't think it's irrelevant - they were judging me for wearing western clothes. In Britain.

I think there are negative associations with burkas for some people and it would be good to have positive ones to counteract this. Headscarves much less controversial it seems.

It is probably for muslim women who want to wear something that is 'fashionable' but still wish to be covered. It makes it easier to find an item of clothing which equals more sales!

The items will still be under different sections too as they are clothes for everyone.

Do not mix culture and religion, two entirely different concepts

They’re not really. If that were true the religions we have wouldn’t reflect the cultures that created them.

I think we should absolutely fight back against the concept that a woman’s worth is decided by her modesty and that modesty is decided by her dress.

We spent centuries fighting this restrictive idea. We shouldn’t let it back in just to be polite.

My (female) relatives don't wear scarves abroad because it is something mandatory where they live. The plane lands and the scarves are pretty much yanked off the head and thrown into the air. And some are genuinely religious women too.

The older generation women in the family didn't use to cover up in non Islamic countries as they said that it was so you didn't draw attention to yourself. You see it much more now - before it would be quite unusual to hear a fully British accent accompanied by coverings. I haven't seen and gold bird like masks for a very long time though. Fashion and trends maybe.

We saw a full head to toe covered woman in s small town on the US - you couldn't even see her eyes for mesh - and my cousin (born and brought up in a country where women have to cover up or get hassled by the moral police) had her eyes out on stalks that a woman would choose to cover to such an extreme extent when she had the freedom not to.

So I see it from the POV of women who are forced by law to dress in an alien fashion to conform to the laws and religion of the land. So 'modesty' doesn't have good connotations to me.

it’s a bit handmaideny when women fall over themselves to be oh so tolerant and liberal about women covering themselves head to toe in the name of a god written about many hundreds of years ago. It’s a disgrace really.

I'm loving the fact Bet Lynch could buy her leopard print coat from the "modest" range at M & S.

Fekko - that was a really interesting post. Do you know how/why the gold bird masks came about? I am fascinated by that!

The older generation women in the family didn't use to cover up in non Islamic countries as they said that it was so you didn't draw attention to yourself

That’s interesting. You could argue that if modesty means not drawing attention to oneself the ultimate “modest” attire would be head uncovered, jeans, stripey top and a cardy.

Well that's what they would say - it's all about not standing out and drawing attention.

I think the masks are Saudi - but the gold thing puzzled me as it is a bit too bling for modesty!

I'm sorry, go r your negative experiences. I am a British born Muslim and I have had equally horrible experiences in the UK, telling me to go back to where I came from (erm.... that would be Scotland!) and that my son and I don't deserve to sit in first class when travelling...

I am a Muslim and while I don't cover up head to toe, I completely respect those who do.

I think people find it hard to get around the fact the fact that, just as everyone is entitled to show off as much flesh as they want, they are EQUALLY entitled to cover up as much as they want!! Oppression and punishment is NOT the reason behind EVERY woman who chooses to wear the niqab/hijab/burka!

My SIL both wear the niqab, while the other two don't. Please don't believe everything you read/see/hear in the media. There are some genuine cases of women being forced to cover up, but there are just as many (if not many many more) who CHOOSE to. They don't need people 'fighting' for them, because it is their CHOICE to cover up.

With regards to the word 'modest', I am sure if it was instead called 'covered' there would be just as much uproar 'are they saying we are uncovered?!' Etc etc

Some of those outfits will show the ankles off for sure 😱😱

It is very wrong because it's one step away from selling burkas!! There is this clothes shop in Turkey that translates its name from modesty which is called 'namus'. In the window all you see are dummies wearing burkas!

Ps - all the clothes there are pretty much the same daily style I have as a white British young female.

They may cover skin but they certainly show plenty of shape, and can still be sexy

(In my opinion 😳)

I've just looked at the outfits on the website and they all look really warm! I'd quite like all those outfits right now .

(I know I'm missing the point)

I think the crap cuts both ways - too covered or not covered enough and that's from all communities.

I really don't like to see small girls all covered up though and I am seeing more of this now where you just wouldn't before. I'm talking about little girls - 4,5,6 years olds and even toddlers. I saw a girl about 5 years old in a floor length black covering with a black headscarf recently (I thought she was in Halloween costume when I saw her out of the corned of my eye). Her mum was dressed the same, and it's not so unusual these days.

I can't get my head around why this is justified anywhere let alone Edgware Road!

Anyway - back to modesty wear. It sounds like girdles or corsets to me!

That's what I find so interesting, without meaning to sound disrespectful, so apologies if it does: Why would anyone choose to be totally covered if it isn't stemming back to ancient ideas put forth by (male) religious figures?

Urgh to anyone who has given you a hard time for being a Muslim. There's some absolute idiots around :(