Gender and sex- wonder how far this is all going to go

[Dippydippydora]

This is all getting out of hand
If this carries on can you imagine at the birth of a child in a few years
Mum after just given birth that seconds says "is it a boy if a girl?"
Midwife- we can't say
Mum- what do you mean?
Midwife- we are not allowed to say
Mum- ok hand me the baby and I will have a look if it is a boy or girl
Midwife- you won't be able to tell
Mum- but he had a penis
Midwife- yes but that does not mean he is a he
Mum- so should I choose a boys name
Midwife- erm

And at the scan before the birth
Mum- can you tell me the gender

Radiographer- no
Mum- oh can you not see
Radiographer- yes it has a penis
Mum- so it is a boy
Radiographer- no, we don't know
Mum- ok so should I paint the nursery blue if he has a penis and get some boys clothes
Radiographer- No, do you want to pressure on the poor child to identity as male
Mum-?????????

Okay I know this is in jest but you do wonder how far it will all go, just for the record I am all for not having gender stipulate what toys and clothes to choose for a child and some other things but as I said you do wonder how far it's going to go

Sorry meant to post on chat

I'm inclined to agree with you. When will it stop?

Don't be ridiculous.

I really agree with you.

This sounds ridiculous but things are going this way

Yep it sounds ridiculous its nearly Christmas but how about 10 years ago someone telling you that men who had just decided one day to be a women without any gender reassignment counselling never mind starting physical treatment would be allowed access to women's spaces and the same men would be allowed to compete in sport against women. You would have said ridiculous I am sure

Or how about a 19 yr old male who identifies as a woman being made a Labour Party women’s officer? Sounds amazing/ridiculous, but has already happened

I'd actually be happy if people stopped buying boy/girl clothing for children and painting rooms blue/pink. I think this is one of the things at the root of this situation.

how about 10 years ago someone telling you that men who had just decided one day to be women without any gender reassignment counselling never mind starting physical treatment, would be allowed access to women's spaces, and the same men would be allowed to compete in sport against women. You would have said ridiculous I am sure

^ Spot on

I'm still of the mind that the only way this nonsense will stop is if hetero male privilege rails against it en masse. They're the big hitters in society who will always be heard if/when they group together

Aside from that everyone against this must never stop talking about and protesting against the nonsense of pretending to drop all labels, but in effect assigning us another label/category for God alone knows what reason.

God Complex is no game. It's dangerous.

Aren't you bored of these threads yet? I get bored just reading the thread titles.

@MDC,
I'm still of the mind that the only way this nonsense will stop is if hetero male privilege rails against it en masse.
How will men lose? It's only women who will lose, not least by there ceasing to be a category of Women any more as it will be open to everyone who just says so. Our sex-based protections will end if the changes to the GRA go through. I am not exaggerating, as sex will become gender which can be anything.

.

YAonlyBU because the radiographer can only tell the mum the SEX not the gender!

One of the most important ways we can battle this nonsense is by refusing to conflate sex and gender. Sex is biological. Gender is societal.

Grow the fuck up

OP, the "mum" has questions?

You assuming the gender of the birthing parent?

Mum- can you tell me the gender
Radiographer- no
Mum- oh can you not see
Radiographer- yes it has a penis
Mum- so it is a boy
Radiographer- no because gender is a social construct. I can tell you the biological sex, though

just for the record I am all for not having gender stipulate what toys and clothes to choose for a child and some other things but as I said you do wonder how far it's going to go

You say this as if the trans trend is the extreme end of efforts to do away with gender stereotypes. Lots of people make that mistake. Trans ideology is not an extension of feminism, which challenges gendered expectations and ultimately seeks to do away with gender (which is the set of roles and expectations imposed on people depending on their sex).

Trans ideology validates and reinforces gender stereotypes (having a vagina doesn't mean you're a girl, but liking pink and pretending you have long hair by wearing a teatowel on your head does!), it does absolutely nothing to challenge them or break them down.

pamish - my point isn't actually about men losing. They never lose. It's about who/what will put a stop to the nonsense. Hetero male privilege will stop it. But that's nothing at all to do with men losing eg if say talking of transwomen. They were born and socialised male, society will make way for them somehow, just not quite as up in the heights as they assume they will be.

The gender reassignment/beutralism will be stopped by the same privilege holders - only if they choose to stop it tho as I'm not sure this particular aspect would bother them that much. At least not initially.

Women's voices collectively still stent heard. Look at the rush to discredit #metoo

I was actually replying to a comment a pp made early in thread somewhere but too tired to scroll way up now

It is going that way, it's a surprise it is, but it is. And some people just aren't aware what is happening.

MmmmmmBop I agree.

If nursery paint is an issue you feel worth getting het up about then carry on by all means.

It does indeed sound ridiculous but it seems the natural direction. I currently feel like I'm living in a parallel universe.

My previous career was as a health care professional, some of the stories of policy change and pressure from other HCPs I am hearing from former colleagues is shocking. One doctor was told by a student doctor this weekend that asking a patient (in A&E) when their last period was "was outrageous abuse".

I feel like checking out of life.

MmmmmmBop

I may have to cut and paste your post in my notes. Very true.