to love my small city flat and not EVER want the suburbs, even with expanding family?

[Wintergirl7]

It's me, DH and 5 month old DD
Background - We bought a brand new, well finished flat in city (not London) 4 yrs ago. We were very lucky in that someone cancelled buying it, and it has good rental/resale potential (already up £20k in value). My parents helped but now we've bought them out. Great location for walking - 2 mins from play park and small shop, large private ground floor terrace (3-4 car spaces size) 5-10 mins from nursery, church, our preferred state primary school and big beautiful park. Also allocated parking!
However, as with most new builds storage isn't brilliant. We have a an open kitchen/diner/living room space, 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms (one ensuite). Our bedroom has a walk in wardrobe, bedside tables and travel cot and we can just move around and no more. Other room, DD's nursery has a large storage unit and is about 4.5 by 3.5 m ish of floor space once you take account of that.

Here's the thing - I can't stand the suburbs. the idea of moving to one makes me claustrophobic. I grew up in a really nice one, and have experience of another two, but I find them so barren and isolating (a few hairdressers, coffee shop and corner shop?) compared to having theatres, parks, pubs so close. And the ones I like are unaffordable.
I love the variety of people, tourist and students in city etc not just families. I drive but I don't like to, DH drives, I like walking.

I love DD to bits and I'm a bit broody for no.2, but I'd be devastated to move from our neighbourhood. There may be 3 bedrooms close by, but we'll have to move towards the rougher bit of the city to afford them, which may cause primary school issues and I suspect they'll be snapped up.

WIBU to live in small-ish flat by choice, and live as clutter free as possible? Would it be fair to DD? Not until DD is a teenager or anything, but at least until sometime in late primary. DH is open to it, but willing to play it by ear. My friend has her two girls in bunk beds. We're considering a storage unit. People seem to assuming we'll be moving and look at me like I'm nuts.....

PS We are interested in trying to save (starting early!) to send DD to private secondary (3 excellent ones in area) but know it will cost an arm and leg, any threads/websites you can recommend please point them my way...

Families all
Over the world live in city flats.

I have three children in a four bed apartment. There are definite drawbacks fir storage, noise, storage, outdoor space, storage.
But the pros are that we are near a good school and community, kids can walk to subway, cinema, swimming pool, park. We have an allotment.

Just see how you feel. Suburbs have a lot to offer but I prefer city life.

I have your fear OP! We have a small 3 bed in N. London (with garden) & 2 DCs plus 1 on the way. I can't imagine living anywhere else but am getting sick of no space. I was raised in London but unfortunately in a large house so my childhood has spoiled me.

Actually have started to look at places like Broadstairs as opposed to the suburbs.

I think the issue with limited space is fine when kids are little, it’s much more difficult when they are older.

I live with 3 children in a rural 4 bed. There are alot of fields trees and sheep. There is bugger all else. We cant walk anywhere as it's a 60mph windy A road with no pavements, There are zero amenities within 10 miles. I moved here pre children and am having park/shop/swimming pool/children activity envy. Stay there as long as you can !

Kids can sleep in bunks until tenish. It’s a very recent idea that each child needs to occupy a whole room.
With limited space you need to be tidy and not hoard anything you don’t use. Life in a city centre is far richer than any suburb or village.

I really appreciate the perspectives, Thanks everyone! What got me thinking was the fact our mortgage renewal is coming up and we're trying to work out our plans. With DD so small it's hard to imagine when she's bigger....

You said you have a large private terrace? For me lack of outside space to potter around on is what makes flats unattractive but since you already have some terrace then it sounds pretty good for now.

I'd stay and worry about moving later if it does feel too cramped.

Yes, outdoor space and somewhere to store buggies / bikes / scooters is a deal breaker for me. Luckily we have both.

Many mortgages are portable and allow you to borrow more so even if you lock in a long term rate you can move. I wouldn't mice pre-emptively. Just wait until you want to. It's really a non issue at this age.

We live in a 2 bed flat in Leeds, my stepdaughter is 15 now and absolutely fine with it (she loves the fact that the city centre is less than a ten minute walk away).

She did want a garden when she was younger, but there are pleasant communal gardens right outside the door and we used to take her to the park (only a five minute walk), so she didn't miss out - she was never that bothered about being outside anyway really, we used to take her to the park to get her some sunshine!

We did decide to stick at only having the one child though, so that we could stay where we are - having another child would have meant moving to a (significantly) worse area. Ironically, we're now at a stage in life where we could afford a larger property and more kids, but we're now in our forties, it just wasn't do-able back then.

Oh and yep, storage space is an issue. Thankfully my parents have a large spare bedroom and a garage where we store stuff (although they do live 25 miles away). If it wasn't for them, we'd probably rent a cupboard or room in a self-storage place.

YANBU. You can live with surprisingly little. Bigger flats and houses just accumulate more clutter. DH and I reduced our stuff massively when we bought our flat as it’s only 400 square feet and we haven’t missed a thing.
There are masses of minimalist blogs about families living in tiny houses in the States. I love Jennifer Scott’s 10-item wardrobe too.
Your city lifestyle sounds fantastic. Enjoy it and good luck!

As I said in my first reply, it's up to you where you live - neither is reasonable or unreasonable, however you have an odd idea of what "suburbs" are like.

"claustrophobic"
"so barren and isolating (a few hairdressers, coffee shop and corner shop?) compared to having theatres, parks, pubs so close."

The suburbs in my city have High Streets, parks and pubs. Some (admittedly not that many) also have theatres, but, tbh, the 20min hop on bus , train, or car into the centre isn't that much of an issue the few times a year I go to the theatre.

We live in a tiny 2/3 bed cottage, very rural so totally different reasons for never wanting to move from you. We have DD due in a couple of months. I think a lot of people think we are crazy to view it as a family home, and to not plan an expensive extension (we just want to pay mortgage off ASAP). But previous owner lived as a family of 4 here from birth to uni (and daughter now lives in barn conversion next door and she had turned out just fine!!). Husband is adamant that he only wants one kid (and I'm not sure I would want to go through the whole pregnancy thing again) but we wouldn't move anyway, if another DC did come along.

Combining minimalist principles with clever storage ideas (even if they cost a little bit more to buy/build) seems to be the key. We are thinking of making a massive shallow storage draw for under the sofa for DD toys. When we eventually get new kitchen, every space will be utilised including plinth drawers, we have an ottoman style bed (brilliant for extra space). There is so much out there now. I watch amazing spaces and go around the mock up ikea apartments for ideas, and obviously google is your friend.

My previous house was a beautiful Edwardian house and much larger, but in a location I didn't want to be, and then I struggled to sell it and it really got me down over the years. So I think choose location over size every time, and then find a way for it to work for you.

the ones I like are unaffordable

So it's all academic because you can't afford to move anyway.

Personally, I think as you get older and your children grow, your priorities change. Things like having pubs on your doorstep are a lot less important than they used to be, and you start being more interested in good schools, baby classes and coffee shops. We live in deepest, darkest suburbia and it's great. Lots of families with kids nearby, parks, great schools, kids all have friends within walking distance. And we can jump on a train and be in the centre of town in 25 minutes.

We lived in a small but lovely 2 bed, inner city flat (Londoner) with zero storage when our DC1 was small. I grew up in inner London and the idea of the suburbs filled me dread.

It did change when we had DC2. Priorities changed, I guess. I suddenly longed for a second reception room, a garden, a bedroom for each child.

We compromised by moving to a suburb, but one on the tube and with a good high street 5 mins walk. I suppose London is possibly a special case, though, in that almost everywhere is pretty diverse and has a bit of edge and lots of stuff happening.

YANBU at all, but play it by ear. Your first child is only a baby and things can change.

With DD1 I lived 300m from the Thames on the Sarf Bank. You don't get better amenities than that, and we had a park at the end of the road (albeit without play equipment). If I'm honest though, it was not a child-friendly choice. Yes she has bragging rights about having learned to ride a bike by the National Theatre and having done lots of cultural activities as a toddler, but activities are not day-to-day life.

DD2 (11 years later) is growing up in a country town and is far jollier and more trusting. Aged 7 she comes running through the woods or across fields with me, she cycles on roads rather than pavements, all her friends are within 10 minutes, she does speak to strangers, her State primary school is in a minor stately home and her social calendar requires a diary. We can get to the coast in less time than I used to take to get to the M25 and we have about a dozen Scout groups to choose from while SE1 has none. And just to show it is possible we went to Sadlers Wells twice this month and it took 75 minutes to get there, which is not hugely more than many people who live in London (and that will be cut almost in half when major engineering work ends).
Children need each other more than they need theatres and pubs. Some 'burbs are ghastly but so is much of the inner city. With the Interweb containing all of human knowledge, you just have to do your research. In retrospect I think that my remaining in SE1 was more about me than it was about DD1 and I regret that. You only have to see DD2 and her friends running round the garden, exploring, solving practical and social problems to know that that is doing more for her brain and future happiness than a nearby pub would (though actually, pubs?! There are more I would take a child into here than in a city...)

We started off with our DS in a two bed flat in zone 3 and moved to a house in the Home Counties this summer. He's 2. For us, it was overall the right move - we wanted more space and were bursting at the seams in our flat, and we really wanted a garden. I did agonise over whether we should just move further out as financially, there wasn't a lot in it, but we were ready to try somewhere new.

I do miss our old area and the plethora of groups on offer - there are quite a few here but there's less incentive to go out as we have the garden and more space.

Overall, though, what has worked for us is not moving to the suburbs, but moving to a town. We're ten minutes from the station and half an hour to London on a fast train (potentially just an hour from Oxford Circus with the right train), and 15 minutes walk into town. We chose to be within walking distance of town as we didn't want to run a car just yet and I love being able to walk to M & S, Sainsburys, nice cafes, playgrounds, etc I may need to get out more. So I recommend town over suburbs - I think you can have the best of both worlds.

One thing I've found interesting is that the playgrounds here are nowhere near as busy as those in London, which may reflect the fact that most people have gardens here. But it's an odd experience to have the playground to yourself on a sunny morning!

Just think ahead about practicalities and remember that in a few years' time (doesn't take long!) your family will not consist of 2 people + small portable object: it will consist of 3 or 4 people, each with their own interests and own lifestyle. So plan for that.

How are you going to ensure that your dc don't have to chuck out their favourite toys because somebody bought them more stuff for Christmas? How are you going to ensure that they can have their friends round to play? How are you going to ensure that both children have a space to do their homework? (there will be homework even in primary, often of the messy taking-up--a-lot-of-space type)

It's not an impossible situations, solutions can be found, but you'll have to plan for them.

YANBU.

We live in a bit of a rough, inner city area in a small house that we own. My parents were horrified that we didn't choose the leafier suburbs. But we love where we live.

We can walk into town, everything we could ever need, from work, shops, cinema, swimming pool etc etc is right on our doorstep. We have some nice woods to explore behind the house and I cannot imagine having to trek out of the city to get home every day.

The traffic in our city is appalling and my colleagues' commutes back out of the city are absymal. I am glad I can walk home in ten minutes.

Depends on the suburb. We have 3-4 beautiful parks nearby (one in the next street), great transport links and lots of restaurants, theatres an easy journey away. It's not like you can just go to the theatre if you have two or more children anyway, you have to plan. I'd never trade a garden and driveway for a central location now either.

YANBU of course but keeping the flat de-cluttered with 2 kids will be never ending...we moved to suburbia 2 years ago with DS (now also have DD) and I really miss my beautiful flat in the city and the buzz but there's no way I could have kept the flat in a reasonably state (and we had good storage). In fact I'm struggling to de-clutter my 4 bed house with garage at the moment...

Personally, I remember that when I was a child I found sharing with my sibling stressful but then that was for an extended period of time. Our parents bought a small two up two down house when they had one child and no plans for more, had a happy surprise and couldn't afford to move until I was a teenager. Your place sounds nice and I think your living arrangement is fine if you're flexible and prepared to move in the future if it becomes too cramped. Just be aware that older kids probably won't be as happy to share.

I moved from the city to the suburbs five months ago. My fiance and I had lived in the city centre (Birmingham) for six years, and both of us dislike 'proper' suburbs of the kind you describe.

He grew up in a suburb, I grew up in the deep countryside, and it took us a while to work out that the suburbs are what we explicitly don't like - it was town vs country for a while, but what we actually don't like is nothing but houses, launderettes, cafes, hairdressers. City/town with proper shops or proper countryside both work for us.

We've moved to a suburb which is more like a little town (it has more shops than my nearest home town), including boutiques, bars, restaurants, clothes etc. Town is still a cheap taxi away, and we have a 3 bed with a nice garden, a big park, and the shops nearby.

Do you think that sort of place would work for you?

I have an 8 and a 10 year old DSs. If I couldn't put a few doors between them and me on a regular basis I think I would go doolally. Not to mention that children need privacy too. They need to be able to get noisy, silly, make a mess, build tents (indoors or outdoors), WITHOUT an adult supervising/monitoring them every step of the way. In a small flat they will never be away from you and have that freedom.

So while YANBU to not want to move to the suburbs. YABVU if you choose to do that to the detriment of space for your DC.