To be bothered by how much we consume as a society...

[Cakelesswonder]

Don't get me wrong I love a retail therapy session but today just felt utterly gluttonous in the amount of ads for Black Friday, the 'deals, I couldn't move for emails offering me 20% off lots of things I don't need. I'm not suggesting everyone knits their own yogurt and lives like Mormons but I really feel we don't have the resources on Earth to keep consuming, throwing and consuming like we do. Everything is disposable, straws, clothes, we buy water in bottles then throw them away polluting the oceans and planet for ourselves and future generations. I have no idea what the overall solution is but it really got to me today .

I've only just heard about the problem of glitter getting into the sea/oceans... my kidd love the stuff but impossible to get it all in the bin

Karrie "It was said that if no plastic is used at all, the waste from oil refineries will be huge and will need to be disposed of"

quite confused about this tbh. Would you be able to tell us more? (not to start a "Grease" earworm, sorry)

Tried Googling, still looking but found a series of diaries and blogs about going plastic-free in the meantime.

myplasticfreelife.com/plasticfreeguide/

Still not found an answer but this came up...

news.mit.edu/2014/pk-clean-solving-worlds-plastic-problem-0620

science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/oil-refining2.htm

I guess the point is that crude oil distillation produces a range of products. Feed for plastics is one of those products. You will get the lighter jet fuel and the heavy tar and all the rest in between which includes petrol and diesel. You can't just magic up petrol without getting those other bits too. Tbh you can make plastics from other sources like you can make car fuel from sugar cane. But it's been quite handy that you get a whole range of products from crude oil.

I genuinely now lie awake at night thinking about all the plastic in landfill - pretty much every plastic item that's ever been made. When I go into shops I imagine all that stuff lying underground for hundreds/thousands of years to come. I think about the microscopic particles of plastic that are in the air and in tap water, which is horrifying. Our bodies are full of it, and the planet is permanently polluted. I don't understand why people aren't terrified about this, but everyone just keeps buying stuff, throwing stuff away, buying more stuff. Humans don't deserve to survive.

*A recommendation for people looking to cut down on tat they buy a buy and read a beginner-friendly book on advertising.

It will show you all the techniques that advertisers use to convince you that life isn't worth living unless you have the latest I-phone etc.

Once you know them, it's fun watching adverts and trying to spot those techniques, and it will make you annoyed that you ever fell for them,

It has really helped me become a saver.*

Ooooooh I will try this!

I agree with the pp. who mentioned checking your privileges. It strikes me that so many of these things we can do depend on time and space. It's great to trawl charity shops, but it does take time. I am lucky enough not to have to work all hours so I have that time. I also save and reuse lots of packaging, keep old clothes for rags and crafts with the kids etc but I have a reasonable sized house with a bit of storage space. Stuff I don't need, I donate if I possibly can but I have a car to transport things and am fit and healthy enough to walk and carry things. It's actually all easy for me but I can still be a bit rubbish at it.

Linked to that I suppose, is that I think that if we could all just slow down a bit, being greener would follow. If there was a bit more slack for people, they might feel they had time to walk rather than take the car, the time to make a costume for school out of an old pillow case rather than buy something on Amazon, time to grow some veg rather than just stick it all on the Tesco delivery. Alongside environmental legislation, I think there needs to be a massive societal shift, maybe through legislation, to make us all slow down and to make 'having time' something that is normal and socially acceptable. At the moment I have time, but society would probably, and government would certainly, view me as 'unproductive' and lazy.

By saying that I am not meaning to say that there are not many very busy people who also manage to live in a low-impact way, but that takes commitment. There is no need to change people who are already committed. The change needs to happen amongst those who are not particularly committed but would probably change if nudged in the right direction.

Swirling - completely agree and I hope the small steps thread is a good way of promoting any step as being valuable. I am quite time poor myself and yes time is a privilege.

I reckon there is more waste plastic and needless packaging with beauty products, healthcare and make-up than anything else.

I'm actually a bit bemused at how much some people use in the way of beauty products. I'm very low maintenance myself (but still clean!). The only things I use are toothpaste, soap, shampoo, shower gel, deodorant and sun block (which doubles as moisturiser if I need it). I don't wear makeup, and just don't use any other lotions/hair products. I've just never felt the need.

Swirlingasong absolutely. I am reliant from time to time on ready meals and prepared veggies due to health needs. I am often berated on Eco communities for using such products but health comes first and a lot of the 'lazy' products has disability in mine.

definitely 'check your privilege' is needed in the eco community. Living in wet raining UK with small homes and being asthmatic drying on washing racks isnt good. living miles from the nearest big shops and no transport means we have to rely on amazon and the like for certain products. If I could get to small independents without going to another town I would but you know... being in the arse end of nowhere you use what you have to use. Yes I can trawl charity shops and I often do in my lunch break (because there are several close by!) but most people cant do that daily.

Some of the eco expectations are ridiculous.

I use washables pads at home and at night times. They are wonderful! Out an about I use tampons because where I work bag searches are sometimes needed and the last thing I want is someone whipping out my used pads. It's not something I want to inflict on someone else because thats a bio hazard and could cause some very embarrassing situations. I would never use reusable loo roll. IBS is a nightmare as it is.

Solar is a no go for me but I can recycle my water on the garden. I can afford to use ecover and method cleaners. Lots of people cant afford ecover. It is expensive unless on a 3 for 2 deal etc but again that requires a certain amount of disposable income to take advantage fo that offer.

money comes into this and yes a lot of eco methods are cheaper but some aren't and need an investment to begin with.

Badlad which book would you recommend I have a few people who could do with reading it.

The Advertising Effect, by Adam Ferrier is one I've read recently. It's not the one which originally changed my mindset - that was decades ago - but it's good, and very readable.

Definitely agree about the effect of lifestyle TV shows. I have always hated property shows in particular. I remember seeing an advert where a kitchen was being berated as in dire need of change. It was in perfect repair and bigger than my living room, it was just a bit old fashioned. All I could think was "bloody hell I would kill for that kitchen". Now admittedly a lot of the reason I hated that advert was purely bitterness as I could never afford a kitchen like that let alone an 'upgrade' but that one advert really brought it home just what these shows do. They make you feel like what you have isn't good enough, and never will be unless you spend money and more money.

I completely agree with the idea of learning the tricks of the advertising trade. We did a project on it in year 9 at school, including making our own adverts by using those tricks, and I really think it was one of our most useful topics. Furthermore I think it's vital to teach it to our kids as young as possible. I am planning a similar project with my home ed DCs. For a long time we have pulled apart adverts between their favourite shows.

Definitely a throw away society now. I didnt buy anything because I dont "need" anything. When i was a kid fizzy (if you bought it) came in glass bottles, which you were paid for returning. Have had some of my clothes 10 years. Had a pair of biker style leather boots with a fur lining for 20, then they did finally fall to bits. They were the only thing I could actually walk on ice in. Course, Christmas is coming up, I see someone on another post put it is for toys. For those who believe it is meant to be Jesus Birthday, although it was from a pagan festival. Some years ago, we gave up the present buying thing, knew damn well we were buying stuff people didnt want,like or need, got into debt with a credit card doing this,spending the next 6 months paying it off. So stopped, when we told MIL we went buying presents she didnt speak to us for 23 months! I live near the beach, and amount of rubbish is awful, not just plastics,but glass often broken,sharp tin cans. When I walk to my ocal shop every day for papers, I picked up litter on the way. Watched a bloke, young wearing shorts, opened savlon, threw down box, and instructions just outside shop, got in his van and off. My DH watched someone do the same just outside the shop with cigarette pack, I was too far away from savoln man, but if I had been next to him I would have said something, there is a bin right by the door. I have got rid of items this year on freecycle, and charity shops. Bought furniture in charity shops. I make my own Christmas presents these days, (no not for MIL) candles, bath bombs and steeps, chutney and jam from the garden.

I've just read this thread, does anyone know the reason why supermarkets don't use paper bags rather than plastic for loose fruit and veg? That alone would save so much unrecyclable waste. That would be a really good campaign to get started

Cookies, I think they are more expensive. Plastic is cheap! At my local greengrocers they provide both (I use the paper if I need a bag) and I'm sure they said the plastic bags are cheaper. I try to avoid using any when possible though (just put stuff in my own large bag).

It's strange really, that people consider we have "made progress" as a society, and yet things that I remember from my childhood (paper bags in shops rather than plastic ones, glass reusable bottles for drinks, electrical goods that lasted for years and could be repaired) have been replaced by the "better" alternative of plastic/disposable stuff.

Don't get me wrong I love a retail therapy session

This is from the OP.

For people who are lonely or depressed (not necessarily meaning clinical depression, just feeling unhappy), the hit they can get from shopping is absolutely massive. Coming back from town with something new, or getting an Amazon parcel in the post can be absolute euphoria. No doubt boredom / comfort is a problem for some, just as comfort eating is.

Very often it's something they don't need. Books they'll never read. Music they'll never listen to. Shopping can be extremely addictive, and damaging in the havoc it plays with people's finances. If people are very lonely, conversations with shop assistants might be the highlight of their interaction in a day.

As well as changing the mindset into one where people reduce, recycle and no longer get tempted to buy the latest tech, I suppose we need to support people for whom shopping is a damaging addiction.

Interesting post, BadLad. I think our shopping habits (mostly online or in large impersonal stores) also take away from the social interactions, which is another reason why I like to use my local greengrocer/butcher. I know the people in there, and often have quite a chat!

And another thing, many busy parents who are cash rich/time poor, end up buying lots of "stuff" for their children, to make up for the fact they can't spend time with them. I think there's a lot of pressure in society to do that sort of thing.

I do indulge in retail therapy, I admit.

It doesn't have to be new, though.

Some of my best sessions have been in charity shops.

Sometimes I rescue clothes that looks like shit, give them a wash and if they survive, that's fine and if they don't, I've washed them for the rag bag and donated to charity.

My favourite coat atm, was filthy, smelly, missing buttons and the fake fur was matted and skuzzy.

Washed, new buttons and the collar washed and combed out with a Nitty Gritty louse comb, it's warm and and fabby.

does anyone know the reason why supermarkets don't use paper bags rather than plastic

As paper is a by-product of trees, there has been pressure to reduce it's use, so as not to worsen the deforestation etc. Apparently, you can't use recycled paper to make into paper bags for some reason, perhaps something to do with hygiene. I do remember seeing various programmes and articles about it many years ago when paper bags started disappearing which was about the same time as the "save the trees" campaigns started.

Strange though, as paper (if produced from softwoods which grow reasonably fast) can be a renewable resource. And it's biodegradable. Neither of which is true of plastic. Surely paper has to be a better option, so long as the trees used for it are managed properly.