To not really know what 'cis' means?

[BinarySearchTree]

I mean, of course I've looked it up, and I nod along whenever anyone describes me as cis.

But I don't really know what it means. I am a woman. I experience the world as a woman. I look like a woman and I am happy to be described as a woman. I could not be described as a tomboy. I support women's rights and equality.

But I wouldn't say I 'identify' with the female gender. I find it quite constraining and oppressive. But I would say I am a woman. Am I cis? Am I not? I don't understand!

No way would I nod op.

Neutral face is as far as I'd go to maintain peace with someone I cared for.

There is no comparison between the use of transgender and cisgender and homosexuality and heterosexuality.

Homosexuality has simple meaning 'you find people of the same sex sexually attractive', and hetero the opposite.

Transgender has no such simple meaning. There is no definition that transgender people will permit other than 'whatever we say it is'.

So a definition based on being NOT transgender is useless when transgender itself has no meaning.

If you have two X chromosomes, you are a woman, XY you are a man, any other combination and something went wrong during your development and you have a syndrome (eg Klinefelter syndrome). If you are transgender, you are either a man who has difficulty accepting that fact, or a woman who has difficulty accepting that fact. By wanting to be recognised as a trans woman or man, you are perpetuating gender stereotypes, not removing them or making them more fluid, and are thus a threat to people who want to be accepted as the gender they actually are, however they dress, think or behave.

if gender is a spectrum then no one is not on that spectrum

I am a woman plain and simple I'm not on any sodding spectrum. Others may define me as such, I don't - and to be honest I find it a bit bloody dismissive that others do.

pisacake

The whole post was realky interesting, but i loved this

Because the people who would have said 'this is bollocks' are doing Economics degrees

So a definition based on being NOT transgender is useless when transgender itself has no meaning.

Good point and one of the reasons I reject the word cis unequivocally.

Agrees wth the majority - woman will do, - #nodebate

*if gender is a spectrum then no one is not on that spectrum

I am a woman plain and simple I'm not on any sodding spectrum. Others may define me as such, I don't - and to be honest I find it a bit bloody dismissive that others do.*

What I was trying (badly) to say is that if gender (not sex/biology) is a spectrum as we are being told then it makes no sense to call people cis.

If we have people who are transsexual, then there are also people who are..

Women is the word you are looking for, women. Adult human females. Trust me society has had no problem identifying them for throughout history.

Cis - all of you that that just love being defined by your genitals.
I would far rather be defined as a woman by my sex characteristics (which are more than genitals) than by some nebulous idea of an internal essence aka gender identity.

But anyhow woman is a descriptor not a definition. Might as well object to humans being defined on the basis of their upright posture

Or trans. Or man or woman (gender, not biological meaning).

Thank you for asking a straight question OP, and thanks to the posters. I am finding this very helpful in defining what I think.

I am transsexual. I am guessing most people on here aren't transsexual. So what are you then?

A woman. Or female. Take your pick

^^ This. 100%

Cis - all of you that that just love being defined by your genitals.
I would far rather be defined as a woman by my sex characteristics (which are more than genitals) than by some nebulous idea of an internal essence aka gender identity.

I was actually agreeing with you Quentin - should have put rolly eye face. You said that you would accept the term cis sexual to describe yourself (biology) but not cis gender (gender). It's the conflation of sex and gender and the co-opting of the word woman that is causing all this misunderstanding.

I was saying (clearly really badly) that you are cis if you wish to be defined by your genitals (gender, not biological category as this is how trans people define themselves) which would be just about nobody.

I totally agree that females are females and women are women because of their reproductive system, nothing more, nothing less.

Will not attempt sarcasm on the school run in future!

Sorry jelly
I really hate the "defined by genitals" thing as it's such patent nonsense and also people really do say that. Super irritating. Although I did recognise your name and was a bit Should have guessed it was sarcasm!

So - Ive never heard the word 'cis' used in real life. I've not read of any woman/feme/whatever the hell we call it these days liking or or preferring to be called it.

So it sounds like it's been created as a bit of an insult/put down? Like the most delightful term 'breeder' which I have heard used in real life (nor for along time though).

I'm not 'cis' and I find the word offensive. I'm also not a stereotypical 'feminine' woman. I do think I am gendered though. Gendering was done to me from when I was a baby and I was dressed in pink rather than blue and given dolls, a cooking set and sewing things as a child to prepare me for my role as a woman. I was told that girls liked these things and that as a girl I should like them. I didn't much, but other girls did and I wanted to fit in and girls who didn't conform were punished (so were boys). Gendering prepared me for a role as a housewife and mother or for occupations such as a seamstress, shop-girl, nurse or teacher. Yes, I bucked this in many ways, but I still today recognise its power and violence (you WILL conform). Gender isn't chosen. Nor is sex. Sex is what we are born with and gender is a social construct that is imposed on us.

My mum was at typical 1950s housewife. A war child who grew up with her mum working.

Of my siblings, its the girls who have done better - financially, socially and with regards to life satisfaction (i.e. Happy with partners, family, home etc). We've been more in control of our own lives.

Mum loved being a mum. That was her thing. Despite her as a role model, none of her daughters went down that route.

It is an insulting word, a rude name for women.

I don't give a flying fuck what it means - not interested in having my sex reduced to "not a man or not a man who wants to be a woman", ta!

As with everything to do with transgender politics, it is a word filched from biochemistry because it is 'like' something. So having cis- and trans- isomers is 'just like' having two different isomers of women

There is a lot of this.

Self identification is just like same sex marriage.
Early intervention is needed for children, just like autism, because their brains are wired differently, just like autism.
'Cotton ceiling' was invented, because it is just like the glass ceiling for women..........

There are a lot of comparisons, but not a lot of actual substance.

Cis is othering. If you insist trans women are women, then you need a name for women to differentiate them.

Cis is not a word I had ever heard of until some thread in the last week. It's not a word I shall ever be using. For this post I'll refer to XX women and XY men just for clarity.

Cisgender may also be defined as those who have "a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex"

This gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex bit bemuses me. So Cisgenders could be women with XX chromosomes who behave like women with XX chromosomes - which given the millions of different roles women with XX chromosomes perform, and all our wonderful personalities, is pretty wide ranging.

Now, what gender role are XY trans males performing? Not XY male, they say, but not XX female either. No XX woman I know performs her gender role in the way that any XY trans male I've ever seen does - i.e. exaggerated movements, highly effected mannerisms, over-the-top dressing, overarching flamboyance etc. It's not how XX women behave.

Now, I fully see how someone might say they are perhaps overcompensating, not getting it quite right, and they even have training courses on "how to pass". But others merely love the dressing up. That's not what being an XX woman is about.

The thing I don't understand at all is - why do they try to pass as XX women anyway? If they are "women trapped in men's bodies", then surely such XX woman behaviour would come naturally to them? Once they begin the treatment, why do they need to be trained at all, if it's intrinsically who they believe they are?

Why do they try to perform the gender role society considers appropriate for other people's sex, and do it in such an OTT manner which does not achieve anything like the XX performance?

If they believe gender fluidity etc, why don't they just perform their own gender role, at the point they naturally are on the spectrum?

• because you can no longer describe them as 'women'.