To not really know what 'cis' means?

[BinarySearchTree]

I mean, of course I've looked it up, and I nod along whenever anyone describes me as cis.

But I don't really know what it means. I am a woman. I experience the world as a woman. I look like a woman and I am happy to be described as a woman. I could not be described as a tomboy. I support women's rights and equality.

But I wouldn't say I 'identify' with the female gender. I find it quite constraining and oppressive. But I would say I am a woman. Am I cis? Am I not? I don't understand!

It is an insulting word, a rude name for women.

Cis is not a rude name for women though. It is (or can be) applied to men or women.

Clearly it is bollocks and this obsession with gender is a passing phase - can't happen quickly enough for me.

Cis is not a rude name for women though. It is (or can be) applied to men or women.

True, but I’ve never seen it used as an insult for men, only women.

I wonder if anyone ever posts on male dominated forums suggesting they should all be happy to be called 'cis'. You know, places like Pistonheads or ARSE. And if not, why not? Surely it applies to men too.

Just did a quick search of Pistonheads - the only mentions of cis I can find refer to the building industry. Funny that.

I hope it passes soon too. It's taking us backwards in my opinion - at least in terms of trying to define 'what's a woman - what do they think, like, do...' I think we should be at the point where we can all choose to do/think/like freely, regardless of our gender. It's regressive to try to introduce some new labelling system in terms of what gender we are.
But biologically we're (in the main) either men or women and I don't think we need another word for that.

Cis means nothing. It is another way in which men are trying to control women. OP, please don't nod along in future if someone says that. Say firmly 'no, I am a woman - no prefixes or suffixes required!'

There's transgenderism and being transsexual. 2 different things - but unfortunately getting more and more blurred

I agree. Its almost impossible to define anything at the moment - the whole #nodebate issue blocks any attempt to discuss. I'm not transexual but the impression I get from the small number I know is that this fudging of gender dysphoria, intersex and 'genderism' is harmful to quite a few of the people it is supposed to include.

My immediate response to the OP was
"I can't answer that, the legislators are yet to define what is a woman in the GRA"
which is both flippant and deadly serious.

Like quentin, I have no problem with the use of cissexual in a context which was distinguishing between transexual people and others but the use of 'cis woman' in every day parlance is utterly meaningless. IME it is used to diminish and close down argument whilst trotting out non evidenced 'facts'.

I'm a woman. I was born a woman and I'll die a woman.

Cis is a Latin prefix used in chemistry for isomerism, when there are two variations of a compound that depend on a double bond in the middle making the whole thing "fixed".

Imagine holding your two hands together with your first and middle fingers touching... first to first, middle to middle would be "cis" hands, as the one side is a mirror image of the other and they cannot rotate. First to middle, first to middle would be "trans" hands, as the mirror image has now been rotated and flipped upside down (and also cannot rotate)

Used in transgender/cisgender, it applies to your sex and "gender"/stereotype. So if your sex and the stereotypical role you perform (used by many as the "gender you identify with") "match" then you are considered cis and if they are opposite, you are trans. As with isomerism, these are fixed - negating the idea of the 57 varieties of gender of varying fluidity (which - contradictory to what cis and trans actually mean - many people who use them also buy into).

However the idea of being a "cis" woman is considered offensive by many woman (me included), as they do not "identify with" the oppressive box in which the patriarchy has put us in, just because we happened to be born female. Add to that the fact that it is often used as an insult, often by the same people who complain when others "assume their gender" (yet see no irony that they assume others consider themselves to be "cis").

Tl;dr Women and trans-identifying males are not different isomers of female.

Adult human females. Trust me society has had no problem identifying them for throughout history.

That's the thing isn't it. It's only recently there's this great puzzlement over which is which and pretending biology is bollocks. Luckily farmers have no trouble with it or there'd be no eggs.

It seems to a way of maintaining the 'othering' of biologically born women. Like someone up-thread said it points to what's in our pants - vaginas obviously, and it keeps the male gaze firmly focused on women. I think its really important to turn down and dismiss a label you didn't give yourself. Naming is vital to identity and I'm in no mood for any more of my identity to be ascribed to me by anyone.

It means not trans

Been following this thread and shaking my head. All an absolute load of horseshit.
Basically then, cis means a biological woman. So, that's a woman then.
Call yourself what you like, identify as whatever the hell you like, but you do not get to call me cis woman. I'm a woman. Female, a woman, and it's a bit bloody insulting to say, "actually, no you're not, you're cis."
Fuck that.

There's transgenderism and being transsexual. 2 different things - but unfortunately getting more and more blurred.

And "cis" refers to transgender and the blurred lines. And all the other ridiculous "genders" like "asexual", "non binary", "greysexual". It does not refer specifically to "a person who is not transsexual" as you said earlier. So it is nonsense. That's even before the fact that it is false to say that female people are privileged over male people for gender (sex role stereotype) reasons, something which arguably has a lot more of an effect on women than men.

'Cis' is what female looks like to a privileged outside observer.

It is not a privilege to be the recipient of FGM - 18 cases performed in the UK every year, and Theresa May has said there will never be a prosecution.

It is not a privilege to belong to a group that will only let you talk to other women.
Or to only be permitted to see a doctor if she is female.

Women are the ones to work with abused women and children, because we are less threatening to them.
Or because their men will refuse access if you're the wrong sex.

It is a massive privilege to be ignorant of all of the above, and to be able to demand women change the reality they live in to accommodate you.
And then to denigrate and abuse them when they set boundaries and say No.

As I've said before, DJ - you don't see many people desperate to be women in countries where women don't have the same rights that we do in the uk!

Can I just say that it all sounds a load of bollocks to me!

It is a massive privilege to be ignorant of all of the above, and to be able to demand women change the reality they live in to accommodate you.

And then to denigrate and abuse them when they set boundaries and say No.

This. With giant festive bells 🔔 on.

sagamartha WidowWadman I do find it inappropriate to label gay the opposite of straight (not everything has opposites and I would say sexuality is one of those things) and far more inappropriate to say someone not being gay makes them straight. There are also bisexual people and asexual people and people who do not want their sexuality labelled for a variety of reasons.

Also there are many people who are not amputees who are also not abled-bodied. There are a wide range of disabilities and ways people discuss them. There are many people who strongly dislike the use of People of Colour as a catch-all term for what originated as a political term of solidarity. The pushing on of terms by those not in said group is generally not going to work well, even when those terms originate in part of a group and are later altered by others outside of it.

Not every group has a neat term and there are very few neat terms for groups of people to define them as not other people. Cis is a chemistry term that does not work well for sex or gender. I mean, how do you label detransitioned or reidentified people like me, some who have gone through social transition and some medical transition and then desisted or reversed procedures when possible even though we still have dysphoria? I started talking about having a sex change when I was 7-8, I've lived as someone others perceived as a young man, I've lived as self identified gender queer, I literally get phantom sensations and panics - am I cis? am I trans? am I "on the same side" or the other side as the sex which is in every cell of my body (not just my genitals) even the parts of my brain which cause gender dysphoria? Are those who reject and fight against gender as a concept "on the same side" as what they're fighting against? Maybe it's more complicated than that and trying to find that label isn't going to help anything.

Well over a decade ago up until a couple of years ago, the rally cry was that you cannot label other people and you shouldn't. Only an individual can tell you what or if they want to be labeled at all and to do otherwise was a major taboo. Labels were for finding like minded people, for coming together and saying we aren't alone, and for trying to find a simple shorthand for very complex situations or feelings to find others who had felt or gone through the same.

Cis- does none of that, it's just part of changes to the movement that has stopped seeking well-being and community for ourselves and others and now pushes control and for power over others. I fell into it for a while and having been on both sides, I find the hyperlabelling not just unhelpful but really damaging and builds nothing. What does it gain anyone if someone calls themselves cis? Why do you want to label people in that way, sagamartha? How does that help you to have a word for people not like you?

I am transsexual. I am guessing most people on here aren't transsexual. So what are you then?

A woman. Plain and simple. Stop trying to label everyone, it's simple really.

Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth.

Wtaf, I've heard it all now! So now we need a word to explain that we are what we actually are ffs.

Jesus christ.

'It seems the concept of respecting other people's right to choose how they define only swings one way with some.'

Right? Gender identitarians insist you must never impose a gender identity on someone without their consent, yet they are determined to impose 'cis' on women who are explicitly saying they don't consent to it.

Yes. That was my whole point.

@PumpkinSquash
Been following this thread and shaking my head. All an absolute load of horseshit.
Basically then, cis means a biological woman. So, that's a woman then.
Call yourself what you like, identify as whatever the hell you like, but you do not get to call me cis woman. I'm a woman. Female, a woman, and it's a bit bloody insulting to say, "actually, no you're not, you're cis."
Fuck that.

This x 100%

@Mishappening Clearly it is bollocks and this obsession with gender is a passing phase - can't happen quickly enough for me.

I urge you to head over to the Feminism boards and read up on the GRA currently being forced through Parliament.

It is very much NOT a passing phase and if it becomes law, it will be permanent and highly destructive to women and girls all over the country.

Wtaf, I've heard it all now! So now we need a word to explain that we are what we actually are ffs

Same, I'm losing all sense of sanity reading this thread!
Least reading this thread has enlightened me to what the word non word cis is.Every day's a school day and all that.
Now if anyone in RL called me it I could know what they're on about and call them out on it by telling them to STFU and stop labelling me

sagamartha
I am transsexual.
If we have people who are gay, they would say that there are also straight people.
If we have people who are transsexual, then there are also people who are....
I have no idea what the appropriate term is that is acceptable to people.

You are a transsexual. I am a woman.