To not really know what 'cis' means?

[BinarySearchTree]

I mean, of course I've looked it up, and I nod along whenever anyone describes me as cis.

But I don't really know what it means. I am a woman. I experience the world as a woman. I look like a woman and I am happy to be described as a woman. I could not be described as a tomboy. I support women's rights and equality.

But I wouldn't say I 'identify' with the female gender. I find it quite constraining and oppressive. But I would say I am a woman. Am I cis? Am I not? I don't understand!

If someone says they are transsexual, is there a word to describe people who aren't transsexual?
I don't mind cissexual when it's applied to people and means "not transsexual". It's when I get told I'm a cis woman because of my "gender identity" and that I have "cis privilege".
I am yet to see a definition of "cis privilege" that doesn't appropriate the experience of other groups or insult women. And I don't have a gender identity. I am physically female, and an adult. Therefore I'm a woman.
saga if trans people want a word to describe "not transsexual" then they need to come up with a way that doesn't impact the identity of the class they are describing.

'Trans' means doesn't feel that their gender matches their sex' so if 'cis' is 'not trans' it must mean 'does feel that their gender matches their sex'. (Happy to be corrected, of you don't agree with my definition of trans please say

Transsexual has NOTHING to do with gender. It's to do with the body and the way the brain perceives.

There's transgenderism and being transsexual. 2 different things - but unfortunately getting more and more blurred.

I am transsexual. I am guessing most people on here aren't transsexual. So what are you then?

I am not a transsexual. In the same way that I'm not blonde, I'm not black, I'm not Asian, I'm not blue-eyed. I am also not 'cis' for reasons I have explained clearly.

As I said above, I would love a word for my group- the group of natal females, whether or not they have a gender identity. The word 'woman' has been taken from us and changed in meaning without consultation or consent and it has not been replaced. 'Cis' is not acceptable to me. And many like me.

Pisacake excellent post. I am simply a woman.

Thinking about it more I suppose I would be fine with being described as a cissexual woman (if circumstances required it). Because that is factual. I'm not trans sexual and I am a woman.
But cis woman? No. I have no gender identity, I'm just a woman.

Spot on, @QuentinSummers. Very good post. I also liked @pisacake's earlier.

I meant to say to @BinarySearchTree that I was struck by the fact that you nod along when somebody describes you as 'cis' in spite of not being sure what it means and whether you agree with it. A few months ago I might have done the same.

One of the things I've realised rather belatedly (I'm in my 50s) is that the transactivists have targeted women precisely because they tend to be much more accepting and reluctant to be rude than men. Gender roles again.

Little girls are brought up to be quieter, kinder, gentler, more helpful and considerate than boys. Obviously not all girls or all boys, but there can't be many of us who haven't come up against those stereotypes at one time or other.

(Obviously Mumsnet attracts a more assertive group, which is one of the reasons I like it here - I'm getting better at this as I get older.)

If men's rights were being affected by this issue in anything like the way that women's are I don't think they would have been tiptoeing around worrying about hurting anyone's feelings by getting the pronouns wrong.

It’s Latin. It’s a hard K sound at the start so more like kiss than sis. In the US they say sis but they also pronounce cephalus with an s sound rather than a hard k sound.(I know that’s Greek btw) In Latin Cs are always pronounced like Ks.

“I am transsexual. I am guessing most people on here aren't transsexual. So what are you then?”

Women. We are simply women.

Because we are adult human females and that is the dictionary definition of the word Woman.

Any questions?

Cis - all of you that that just love being defined by your genitals.

I am genetically a woman, physically a woman and mentally a woman.

Woman will do in any context.

If youre not transexual, as an adult, youre either a man or woman

We already have 2 words that perfectly describe them.

What's wrong with being defined by your genitals? It's a factual description which is relevant for some purposes, e.g. health care.

But what sex you are doesn't have to limit what you do in life. Women can be engineers, men can be nurses.

I’ve never heard it in rl and probably never will, tg

Grating to see it on here - if people want to use it let it be hide-able

Why do you need a word that a transsexual would use to describe someone who isn't transsexual?

Would that be different word from what a someone who isn't transsexual world use to describe a someone else who isn't transsexual?

Why?

I am constantly amazed at grown, educated women who wouldn't put up being called 'lady' or 'girl' but turn into meek, accepting hand maidens when a transwoman demands they are 'ciswomen'.

Is this the new surrendered wife?
Women who have been bought up with the advantages of hard won rights have no knowledge of what life was like in when women were truly second class citizens.
So now they are chucking those rights away without understanding what its like when they are gone.

I thought it meant 'straight'

I wish people would stop labelling people. It's not necessary, be who you want wear what you want do what you want (within the constraints of the law/consenting adults ect ect)

But what sex you are doesn't have to limit what you do in life. Women can be engineers, men can be nurses.

Oh absolutely. But gender is not about biology so calling someone cis assumes they accept the limitations placed on them because of their genitals.

Like a pp said I would happily accept cis sexual but not cis gender.

Jellyfrizz have you read the responses? Why is it OK to keep insisting on using a word that we find offensive?

As for 'being defined by my genitals well, yes, when we're discussing sex! I don't have a gender identity so I can't use that to define myself. I use many many other ways but in the context of what sex I am, yes it's my biological make-up (and how I have been treated because of that) that makes me a woman.

Or did, before the word 'woman' became meaningless.

Saga, I completely understand that 'trans' and 'transsexual' are not the same and I now see that you are arguing for a word that means not transexual' rather than not trans.

I don't really understand why one word is needed rather than 'people who aren't transsexual'. As I say, I completely reject 'cis' because of the connotations, I would accept natal woman' or 'biological woman' but I know that trans activists (not transsexuals) will not accept that.

I hate it. Mainly because it works on the premise that there are two classes of women, one being Trans. And I’m sorry but that’s just not true. Transwomen are a subset of men.

The world has gone completely fucking cuckoo about this and every time I think I’ve reached Peak Trans, something else comes along to top it.

It indicates an adherence to an ideology, whereas gay/straight blue eyed/brown eyed are just facts.

Jelly frizz I have just seen your most recent post and assume I misunderstood the earlier one and you weren't agreeing with the use of cis- apologies!

I am transsexual. I am guessing most people on here aren't transsexual. So what are you then?

A woman. Or female. Take your pick.

It's quite straightforward really.

I think someone upthread mentioned the N word that everyone is now too scared to use to describe conforming to typical gender; by saying that we are normal would mean that anything else therefore is abnormal and possibly wrong somehow.
FWIW I think that within male & female sexes there is a spectrum, ranging (in females, for instance) from the stereotypical girly girl to someone that some might be called butch. They are still all women/females.
It doesn't make anyone wrong, we're all just different individuals. I've never been particularly feminine, I am good at spatial stuff (much better at parking than DH!), physically quite robust, sometimes much prefer the company of men rather (for conversation etc) but that doesn't mean I am transgender. And I don't need any other label to describe myself.

That's the thing betty, if gender is a spectrum then no one is not on that spectrum.