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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

All we want for Christmas is an IMPEACHMENT! Trump con't

966 replies

AcrossthePond55 · 22/11/2017 18:00

Dear Father Christmas/Santa, Please grant our Christmas Wish. We have been very good this year. We promise not to say shit, cunt, or fuck too terribly much unless we're driven to it by Trump CuntFuckery. Oh shit, so much for that promise! Well, we'll TRY. Thank You, the MN Viper Freedom Squad

Old thread;

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3081957-The-zephyrs-of-change-Trump-continued?msgid=73548297

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
cozietoesie · 23/11/2017 22:40

Clean the house, Perking. With a toothbrush if you have an old one handy. That often works. Wink

cozietoesie · 23/11/2017 22:51

45 will likely lean on someone else to pay for Flynn’s legal team. Wink

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 23/11/2017 22:59

Not if Flynn’s turned on him!

cozietoesie · 23/11/2017 23:09

True. Smile

cozietoesie · 23/11/2017 23:13

I have to say that if I were in an interview room and Mr M came in and sat down opposite me, I’d just offer him my firstborn and be done with it. Grin

badbadhusky · 23/11/2017 23:49

Feels like all those years of grifting have given Trump a false sense of his own invincibility. It wasn’t the brightest move to slag off his own intelligence agencies and stick two fingers up at the judiciary so early in his presidency. I hope they throw the book at him when the shit really hits the fan. (If DT can do word salad, I can do metaphor mash. Wink)

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/11/2017 00:11

Zoooooooom

What was that I hear you cry?

It's the invisible Badkitten flying through the thread.

cozietoesie · 24/11/2017 00:12
Grin
TheClaws · 24/11/2017 05:23

If you think this is from months and months ago, alas, it is not. It is only a couple of hours ago. Donald, while brainless, is stupidly determined. This was sparked by one of those whiny generic ‘Obamacare is failing/dead - we must repeal and replace’ tweets.

thehill.com/homenews/administration/361693-trump-vows-to-repeal-and-replace-obamacare-disaster

lionheart · 24/11/2017 06:08

Norm Eisen‏Verified account
@NormEisen

I negotiated a cooperation deal for a target with Mueller's office when he was US Atty and lemme tell ya, he's not gonna give one to Flynn unless he implicates someone up the ladder. That means Kushner, Don Jr., or Big Daddy. They are all having indigestion tonight.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 06:26

eted
Renato Mariotti
Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
THREAD: What does today's news that Flynn's lawyers are no longer sharing information with the Trump legal team tell us about the state of Mueller's investigation? (Hint: It tells us a lot.)

1/ While most of us were celebrating Thanksgiving with our families, the @nytimes broke the news that lawyers for former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn told Trump's lawyers that they could no longer discuss the Mueller investigation.
2/ Defense attorneys representing individuals that are under investigation typically agree to share information with each other about what they've learned from the government.
3/ The government tries to reveal as little as possible about what it's doing to the defense, so defense attorneys try to glean as much as they can from their brief conversations with prosecutors and from the questions their clients are asked during interviews.
4/ Those nuggets of information are valuable and are usually the basis of the stories we're reading in the media about the Mueller investigation. The lawyers representing people under investigation dissect those nuggets just like I do for you.
5/ Usually defense attorneys enter into a "joint defense agreement." Sometimes it's written down but often it isn't. Basically it's an agreement that your client are on the same side and so your statements to each other (among attorneys) are privileged.
6/ The fact that Flynn's lawyers aren't sharing information with Trump's lawyers means that they believe it is no longer in Flynn's interest to do so. It is highly likely that it means Flynn is pursuing a cooperation deal with Mueller.
7/ That's a shocking development because it means that Flynn does not expect Trump to pardon him or his son, or he believes that him or his son could be convicted of unpardonable state offenses. If pardons are off the table, cooperation is likely the right move for Flynn.
8/ This makes the behavior of Flynn's son, who made baseless attacks against Mueller on Twitter, seem bizarre. It also calls into question Manafort's strategy. Manafort's lawyers have publicly blasted Mueller, and the only obvious upside of that strategy is that it pleases Trump.
9/ According to @Comey, Trump told him that Flynn "is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." If Flynn thinks HE won't get a pardon, after Trump made that request on his behalf, why does Manafort think he'll get one?
10/ (One answer could be that a pardon of Flynn could be used by Mueller as evidence of Trump's "corrupt intent" to prove obstruction, because it could indicate Trump's strong desire to relieve Flynn of criminal liability. A Manafort pardon wouldn't impact an obstruction case.)
11/ To pursue a deal, Flynn would generally have to agree to waive his Fifth Amendment right and agree to an interview with Mueller's team. They would give him limited protection (called "proffer" protection) as to his statements.
12/ Mueller could use any leads he generated off of what Flynn said and could also the statements against him if Flynn said something different on the witness stand later. So defense attorneys don't bring their client in to seek cooperation unless they think they can get a deal.
13/ To get a deal, Flynn would need to prove testimony that helped the government make a chargeable case against someone else. It's not enough for Flynn to try hard, although even his attempt to cooperate could be considered by the judge at sentencing.
14/ Now that we know Flynn is trying to cooperate, the recent news that Mueller is looking at Flynn business partner Bijan Khan takes on new meaning. It's possible that Flynn has flipped on Khan, or that Khan's cooperation lead to Flynn's cooperation.

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amp/mike-flynn-business-partner-bijan-kian-now-subject-mueller-probe-n823366
15/ Obviously Mueller will push Flynn for information on everyone he is investigating, but the mere fact that Flynn is cooperating doesn't mean that Flynn's testimony is sufficient to charge any particular person. A completed deal would just mean SOMEONE else could be charged.
16/ A deal for Flynn would likely mean that Mueller would accept a guilty plea to a single felony charge and would potentially recommend a reduced sentence depending on the extent of his cooperation. It is unlikely to result in complete immunity.
17/ Typically federal prosecutors require their cooperators to answer all questions on all subjects related to the investigation, so when someone "flips," it often generates many new leads and avenues to investigate. Flynn's cooperation would further lengthen the investigation.
18/ So Trump lawyer Ty Cobb's prediction that the entire investigation could wrap up shortly after the new year is looking worse by the minute. /end

HabesLA1
HabesLA1
@habesla1
Serious question: If you’re Trump’s lawyers does this make you nervous?

Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti
It's never a good thing for the subject of a criminal investigation when someone else who is under investigation decides to cooperate. The cooperator always helps the prosecutor, which hurts the other people under investigation.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 06:30

This means nothing to me but might be of interest to you cozie

The Wall Street Journal
@WSJ
Today’s yield curve flattening comes as the U.S. economy seems to be humming along, sending an unclear signal

www.wsj.com/amp/articles/have-trillions-of-fed-dollars-broken-a-bond-market-warning-sign-1511438401

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 10:14

We Found 45 Suspected Bot Accounts Sharing Pro-Trump, Pro-Brexit Messages That Twitter Missed In Evidence To Congress

The social media giant is facing serious questions over its efforts to deal with fake propaganda accounts after BuzzFeed News uncovered a network directly connected to the Russia-linked accounts Twitter submitted to Congress.

www.buzzfeed.com/tomphillips/we-found-45-suspected-bot-accounts-sharing-pro-trump-pro?utm_term=.hhjnJdOx#.rjOQVKLq

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 10:14

Mark Di Stefano @MarkDiStef

Important political fallout

DCMS committee chair Damian Collins: "This BuzzFeed investigation clearly calls into question the evidence that Twitter provided to the US... and demonstrates that whatever process the company undertook... was simply not rigorous enough"

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 10:23

This is really interesting and explains the need for Fox, the Daily Mail, the dog whistles...

At Yale, we conducted an experiment to turn conservatives into liberals. The results say a lot about our political divisions.

www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2017/11/22/at-yale-we-conducted-an-experiment-to-turn-conservatives-into-liberals-the-results-say-a-lot-about-our-political-divisions/?utm_term=.c0683120069b

Natsku · 24/11/2017 10:33

Ooo so Flynn might be cooperating

PerkingFaintly · 24/11/2017 10:34

That article about fear causing conservative views, secure feelings causing more liberal views, is incredibly interesting, Pain. And corresponds to other work I've seen on this.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 10:43

perking Some had retweeted the article with the caption "Hug a Leaver" Grin

PerkingFaintly · 24/11/2017 10:49

Grin It's trooooo!

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 24/11/2017 13:07

This is a bit more than usual circus antics, I think?

Benjamin Wittes‏
@benjaminwittes
Huh. Yesterday the NYT reports that Mike Flynn may be negotiating a deal in L'Affaire Turque, and today this. Coincidence?

Donald J. Trump‏
@realDonaldTrump
Will be speaking to President Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey this morning about bringing peace to the mess that I inherited in the Middle East. I will get it all done, but what a mistake, in lives and dollars (6 trillion), to be there in the first place!

AcrossthePond55 · 24/11/2017 13:27

That last tweet made my eyes roll so hard and fast that I feel faintly queasy. No, well, maybe is just that Scrotus always makes me faintly queasy.

"mess I inherited'....."I will get it all done". Gag.

OP posts:
Roussette · 24/11/2017 14:11

Well... he actually said in an interview when he won the election that he was going to bring world peace. He is the biggest idiot on the planet and now he's cosying up to a dictator.

He then follows it up with this tweet

"More
After Turkey call I will be heading over to Trump National Golf Club, Jupiter, to play golf (quickly) with Tiger Woods and Dustin Johnson. Then back to Mar-a-Lago for talks on bringing even more jobs and companies back to the USA!"

It obviously rankles that he gets criticised for his incessant golfing. I'm not sure how you play a 'quick' game of golf. Golf is golf and lasts as long as it lasts

OhYouBadBadKitten · 24/11/2017 14:17

oh no! I have an awful image of him waddling across the golf course at high speed Benny Hill style. Envy

cozietoesie · 24/11/2017 14:24

I think that this is called 'The making of a President'? (A Newsweek piece.

Pence and Thanksgiving

Lweji · 24/11/2017 15:09

Very interesting article, about the Yale study.

I'd love to have a time frame for Peace in the Middle East. I wonder if it will be two weeks.

Also the Thanksgiving contrasts.

"The commander-in-chief then took off with the first lady for a short drive to Coast Guard Station Lake Worth Inlet, where the couple greeted servicemembers over a Thanksgiving spread — featuring baskets heaped with plastic-wrapped sandwiches and fruit — the Trumps had provided."

And crisps. Cheap and junk.

Oh, and that speech about letting the armed forces win... Biscuit