At a 19yr Old Transwoman being elected a Labour woman’s officer

[bambambini]

Seems the old WO stepped down after alleged bullying and accusation of transphobia. The new WO is a 19 yr old Transwoman - i think who made many of The allegations against the previous WO.

What experience has a 19 yr old TW got to hold this post - weirder than weird.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8

[StrangeLookingParasite]

A transwoman is not a male!

Yes. They are. You may choose to delude yourself on this front, I, and many others will not.

[sleighbellend]

Dinosaurs, stop lying to yourself. You know as well as we do that ‘Lily’ is a teenage male with no knowledge or experience of what being a female is other than the stereotypes he’s picked up (probably from porn). The fact that you’re spineless enough to go along with his charade astounds me - these men may hate radical feminists, but they’re laughing at women like you who go along with their delusion out of fear and desperation to appear woke.

[RedToothBrush]

I'm not against trans women. I think they have a place in our society and indeed our political system. But certainly not in this manner and by this individual under these circumstances.

The answers on this thread point to one thing and its a message that shouldn't be ignored.

The thing biological women are afraid of when it comes to transwomen is this word: 'aggression'. Acting in a way that is perceived to be aggressive, only serves to undermine and create new hostility, resentment and fear. It does not help to get rid of fears, it only fuels and reinforces them by 'proving' it.

This is going to far too fast, and is not helping the cause that those promoting it want.

Its not liberal as its imposed in an authoritarian manner which puts a vulnerable group at risk and at their expense whilst it tries to promote another.

That is not progress. That is not equality. Quite the reverse.

There needs to be sensitivity to why there is this fear. Its not like homophobia - the comparison I see endlessly is wrong. Its born out of something else that needs to be recognised and understood. Look at language used. Look at emotion that it provokes. Its more than the historical hostility to homophobia. People who make the comparison are totally missing the point about where the fear comes from. Its not simply ignorance.

More needs to be done to find an alternative way forward that women can work WITH and support rather than feeling that they are being thrown under the bus for. I do believe its possible, but that requires the right attitude - and the right understanding of women's issues - by the trans-activists. Its the blinkers, the hostile attitude and the self-obsession at the expense of others that alarms.

From a purely political point of view, how can women have the confidence that they will be served well by someone they feel doesn't acknowledge their concerns, and instead is actively openly hostile to them? A transwoman COULD potentially serve in this position, but they would HAVE to have sympathy to this issue and a sensitivity to why they are a controversial choice. This certainly, isn't this individual because of the history involved.

I also don't believe that all trans-people believe that the way their rights are currently being fought for, with decisions like this, is necessarily helpful and productive, and in their best interests. Indeed I've seen a few MN posters say words to that effect and express their own fear at the backlash it could produce which might in fact endanger them.

[8pawsgood]

I feel very uncomfortable about this... there I've said it. I don't agree with Transgender and wouldn't recognise a man as a woman (or visa versa) but I respect that person's right to do what they want as long as they don't harm anyone else or force me to see things their way. Society is queuing up to tell me I'm transphobic or hateful in some way to those invidiuals who try and change there gender. I believe that gender is set, you can be what you want in any other way but for me that's how it is. Now I feel worried that I've said that for fear of reprisal and that's how the gender swap movement want me to feel. Sometimes I feel this world is fucked. I mean no harm.

[shutitandtidyupgitface]

A transwoman is not a male! Educate yourselves

This is the kind of nonsense we have to put up with now. On what planet do you have to be to think "hmm, penis, testosterone, XY chromosomes....yes definitely not a male" to the point that you feel comfortable telling everyone else to edcuate themselves?

Pick up a fucking biology book, and a dictionary and come back when you are ready to apologise for this shit.

[BitOutOfPractice]

I felt a little heartened that the Times at least said this early on in the article

"Her appointment highlights the battle being fought between transgender activists, who believe gender should be a matter of self-declaration, and critics who claim that the very category of “woman” is being erased to appease the demands of a minority group"

I think the second part of that sentence would have not been said even a few moths ago for fear of accusations of transphobia

[IfNot]

The whole thing is nuts.
I am a white woman. I have grown up loving black female musicians. I know all the words to Lemonade.
Can I now decide that, given my affinity to certain aspects of black culture that I am now a black woman, and as such can be given a role to advocate specifically for black women? Would that be OK?
Even if my heart is in the right place, there are things about being a black woman in the UK that I cannot wholly understand.
(In fact, I was in a conversation recently with 2 women of colour, and they brought up something that in all my years I had never even thought of, and it was something that they both recognised instantly.)
So however much I might relate on one level, I can't just decide I am them, and I have as much right to speak for them.
This young trans person has every right to step into a role to speak for transwomen. Or even to create such a role and represent that section of society.
But he can't speak for me.

[noeffingidea]

I won't be voting at the next election now, because there is no political party that represents my interests as a working class woman.
I will not support any company or group that supports the erasure of women, full stop.

[Elendon]

I'm not in fear of the current trend in trans political agendas. I'm bloody angry

[FlowerPot1234]

IfNot

The whole thing is nuts.
I am a white woman. I have grown up loving black female musicians.
Can I now decide that, given my affinity to certain aspects of black culture that I am now a black woman, and as such can be given a role to advocate specifically for black women? Would that be OK?

Oh yes! Apparently you can do that now!

It's called racial fluidity and transracialism. And no, this is not an early April's fool. White American bloke called Adam Wheeler, and white american woman called Rachel Dolezal.

[Lancelottie]

Anyone politically astute and rhinoceros-skinned feel like starting the 'Biological Females Just Getting On With It Without Giving A Fuck About Skirts Party'?

[RedToothBrush]

One of the problems I currently have is that there are huge issues with law which insists transwomen be classed and treated as women in all situations.

This, by its nature, means that all crime committed by women and transwomen is lumped together. In the clumsy way this is done and generalised, when a sex crime is committed this leads to it looking very different in statistics to the nature of a crime. It could produce an important distortion - the one that women are afraid of - and fear will be covered up.

Yet at the same type, transwomen want a special status where if a crime is committed against them because they are transgender it is called a hate crime.

On the one hand they want to be women at all times and in all situations but also be transwomen too, when its about their vulnerability. It is a deliberate ignoring of the vulnerability women feel.

Whatever privilege women born women might have, this totally, not only removes that, but also puts them potentially more at risk, because no one wants to look at stats that might point to a difference and a distinction because of the politics that produces. And yes, it does give transwomen a privilege over women, by creating this protection in law, where to criticise or raise concerns is effectively, unlawful, or could be framed as that.

The current politics are masking a potential problem, which does need to be discussed and addressed otherwise, if there is an underlying issue hidden in there the reality will eventually come back and bite politically.

This is not a good thing for either group in the long run.

[SarahH12]

Gosh that's absolutely ludicrous. Although no doubt anybody who disagrees will be accused of transphobia! It's a fucking joke.

I posted something similar to this on Facebook a while back when the NUS women's officer was a TW. Got absolutely vilified and accused of all sorts!

[brasty]

Yes, pm me

[ChiefClerkDrumknott]

Trumpettes

Did you just assume our gender?

[IfNot]

Oh God flowerpot Thats just so..self absorbed!
The whole thing reminds me of the trend a few years ago for LA teenagers to "live as " vampires. They would "drink" each others blood and pretend to be invisible...
Yes, the real world can be brutal. I wish it wasn't. But you can only change things from the standpoint of who you are really are, not what you wish you were.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Yes when a white woman identified as a black woman and lived as a black woman fooling everyone into believing she was black for years.....when it was discovered she was actually white she was ripped apart. Lost her job, pilloried in the international media. Many articles written on how on earth could a white woman believe she could speak on behalf of black people, she had no idea what it was actually like to grow up as a black person, etc.

All of that but the media keep quiet on the subject of how it's ok for a man to speak on behalf of women. It blatantly isn't.

[PricklyBall]

@NettleTea thank you so much for posting, and please pass on my good wishes and support to all those women in your constituency party who have been forced out by this McCarthyite witch hunt.

[FlowerPot1234]

[IfNot]

transwomen want a special status where if a crime is committed against them because they are transgender it is called a hate crime.

I mean..it IS a hate crime if that happens, but that does make me think; why isn't violence against women considered a hate crime? Because I don't think it is? ( Or am I wrong?)

[PhilODox]

Nettle, thank you, I've saved to read later.

[CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger]

Touché ChiefClerkDrumknott :)

If anyone is in the Cambridge area and free this Thursday evening Anne Ruzylo, Linda Bellos & Helen Steel are holding a talk (actual venue TBC for obvious reasons) at 7pm.

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-on-the-platform-tickets-39588207394

[PricklyBall]

The legal status of rape is interesting. It's currently defined in terms of parts of the biologically real body - insertion of a penis into vagina, anus or mouth without consent. So transwomen can and have been convicted (even those identifying as women at the time the offence was committed eg Kathy Brannen). At the moment it remains the one unambiguous way of getting a handle on how the statistics of sex offenders are being distorted by trains ideology - because regardless of how the perpetrator is described in press coverage you know that's if the actual offence they're convicted of is rape, they had a penis at the time the offence was committed.

[HappyCamperZZZ]

Nettle - thank you for commenting.
Can you please pass on to Annie how much support she has from so many of us. Is there a petition, or anything else we can do to directly express our support for her ?