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AIBU?

At a 19yr Old Transwoman being elected a Labour woman’s officer

476 replies

bambambini · 20/11/2017 08:48

Seems the old WO stepped down after alleged bullying and accusation of transphobia. The new WO is a 19 yr old Transwoman - i think who made many of The allegations against the previous WO.

What experience has a 19 yr old TW got to hold this post - weirder than weird.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8

OP posts:
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CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 25/11/2017 21:17

And I! Wrong thread!

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CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 25/11/2017 21:16

I love lucy! And who is Charlotte on that conversation? Loving her too!

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ButchyRestingFace · 22/11/2017 13:03

oops wrong thread

A welcome diversion. Grin

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RedToothBrush · 22/11/2017 12:41

oops wrong thread

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RedToothBrush · 22/11/2017 12:41

£3 billion dedicated to Brexit over the next two years.

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AssignedPerfectAtBirth · 22/11/2017 12:30

Aaaannd jsut when you thought you had reached #peaktrans

twitter.com/racybearhold/status/933245328823693312

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RedToothBrush · 22/11/2017 10:09

Anlaf, that's really interesting. The same appears to be true of Trump followers in the US and Brexit supporters over here (and for balance I'm sure it also applies to Momentum and other left-wing groups too). I was gobsmacked on Twitter the other day to find out that many Republican supporters believe the US is not a democracy. This explains a great deal. They actually believe that because they are a republic they can't also be a democracy. This can only be tribal. They vote Republican, Democrats are the enemy, therefore nothing that sounds like Democrat can be a good thing. Wow.

The reason we are at the position we are at is because of a gradual complacency over the concept of democracy and the involvement that ordinary people have in that.

It has been particularly noticeable in the UK since the Blair years and people tend to term the undermining factor as 'political spin' - its basically a reflection of the overuse of propaganda to try and persuade people to believe certain things and behave in a certain way (an authoritarian creep) which has ignored the participation and contribution of certain groups to debate. Obama was also very guilty of using executive powers too often as he struggled to get anything done otherwise because of democratic opposition in Congress. It meant that it is now much more acceptable and harder for Democrats to challenge Trump's use of executive powers.

As parts of the public feel they have lost influence they have looked elsewhere to be 'listened to'. This is where it becomes sinister as groups exploit this democracy deficient profess to have the answers become popular with the mentality that 'we aren't being listened to by the mainstream so we are not part of democracy so have nothing to lose anyway'. It doesn't matter if those they turn to tell outrageous lies, because the perception is that 'everyone else does the same anyway', and 'I may as well look after my own interests and screw everyone else' because they feel they have already been screwed over. They cling to the ideal of hope because the governing alternative has already removed that glimmer of hope from them.

The reality is it never works like that. When rights in a certain area are eroded, it becomes acceptable for rights in other areas to be eroded. Rights can only be protected by a collective valuing of what they mean. People swept up in this mentality have a misconception and inability to conceive that things could indeed get much worse for them until it happens sadly. Because they take for granted the protection that rights offer them. What we are currently seeing is the loss of value and a lack of understanding of what anyone losing rights really means. You can not 'replace' rights - you can only add to those that already exist - without destroying the integrity and value of rights overall.

People do not realise that devaluing the rights of others ALWAYS devalues their own rights. Without exception. Until you are part of the small number of people who have real power.

Over use of propaganda and turning away from the slow and difficult job of building consensus by liberals for a 'quick result' has corrupted liberalism from the very thing that it opposed - authoritarianism. It has merely served to make it acceptable for those with darker agenda be able to use the same methods, without the ability of liberals to criticise without appearing - quite rightly - total hypocrites, for their own more extreme and less inclusive agendas. This is both on the left and right.

The trans issue in America, did influence a certain section of the population and make them turn away from voting for Hilary when they might otherwise have done so.

I do recommend Nick Cohen's 'What's Left' for a wider and more in depth exploration of the erosion and loss of faith in democracy in the west.

At the moment, we are not making any progress on reclaiming this and turning the tide. It requires people to better understand the concepts and principles of democracy and to fight for them. The current government and opposition are both working against that, which makes it very difficult to get a work in edgeways in a climate where the language of both is very much focused on this polarisation and the idea of 'traitors'.

Brexit is the very embodiment of this pattern. Leaving the EU in itself was not necessarily a bad principle - there were some good reasons in the mix of all the bad and for some people they were important and I think it is important to recognise that rather than condemn the idea of Leaving outright. The problem is and always was, how it leaves the UK and EU citizens here vulnerable and exposed to the removal of rights as certain groups hijack it as an opportunity to 'take back control' of power for themselves rather than the people.

As always, its not what you do, but the way you do it that is incredibly important. To restore liberalism and democracy people need to understand its value and get back to the hard graft of defending it wherever it exists.

Anyway, I digress a lot, but I do think the background to the wider political climate is relevant and worth understanding in order to try and defend against authoritarian Trans Activism.

It is not an issue about left, right or centre here. There is a movement to try and create this idea that those on the right or in the centre are the enemy which is part of the dynamic of far left gaining control and growing in power. There are liberals in the centre and in the right who are allies on certain issues and value the idea of democracy even if they have different opinions elsewhere. A healthy functioning democracy allows and encourages debate, rather than tries to shut it down by 'demonising the enemy'.

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RubbishRobotFromTheDawnOfTime · 22/11/2017 09:56

This is a brilliant explanation by one woman about her previous support for trans rights and what she has come to realise about the movement.

It says 20 minutes but actually only runs to about 10 minutes then starts to repeat.

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Datun · 22/11/2017 09:07

FlyMaybe

A poster up thread summarised it all quite nicely. I will copy and post her comment below. You might also add that in addition to this, this boy has taken the place of an actual woman. How is that promoting women in the party?

Change up the words, though. Because if MPs get the same letter, they tend to bin them. Email it, and send it in writing. In this day and age an actual piece of paper sometimes gets dealt with quicker. Say in the email you are posting a hardcopy and on the hard copy say you emailed it on such and such a date.

“Betty184

Just trying to catch up on this thread so have I got it right that:

At a time that a light is finally being shone on the sexual harassment that women experience at the hands of men (#MeToo) and the abuse/threats/violence against women in politics (or any woman expressing any opinion that displeases a man) the Labour party have appointed as a Women’s Officer:

-Someone with a penis who described themselves as a rapist’s apprentice?

-Has no empathy or understanding of women being uncomfortable/scared of sharing spaces such as changing rooms with biological men – to the point of taking legal action to gain access?

-Who was involved in the harassment campaign against an experienced, lesbian Women’s Officer for expressing views that this individual did not agree with, to the point that she was pushed out of her post and the whole Committee felt they had to resign due to the harassment?

-And mocking the Women’s Officer for being ‘less feminine’/decorative then Lily (which is obviously a woman’s main function)?

-And is now applying for the Jo Cox Programme, set up in memory of a female politician killed by a man for daring to express views that he didn’t agree with?

Is there any craziness I’ve missed in all this?”

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/11/2017 08:42

Thanks for that! Oh dear.

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ShotsFired · 22/11/2017 08:32

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g They vote Republican, Democrats are the enemy, therefore nothing that sounds like Democrat can be a good thing.

Proven time and time again with stuff like this:

You can translate this kind of reaction to any other scenarios.

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Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 22/11/2017 08:19

Anlaf, that's really interesting. The same appears to be true of Trump followers in the US and Brexit supporters over here (and for balance I'm sure it also applies to Momentum and other left-wing groups too). I was gobsmacked on Twitter the other day to find out that many Republican supporters believe the US is not a democracy. This explains a great deal. They actually believe that because they are a republic they can't also be a democracy. This can only be tribal. They vote Republican, Democrats are the enemy, therefore nothing that sounds like Democrat can be a good thing. Wow.

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Anlaf · 22/11/2017 08:03

Red linked upthread to the political cults wiki. The book referenced there has some fascinating bits. This, on the things cults do to recruit and hold members, is very relevant:

2. Create a grandfalloon. The term "grandfalloon" is derived from a Kurt Vonnegut novel (Cat's Cradle, 1963), while the process referred to is known in social psychology as the minimal group paradigm. It reflects the research finding that when people are assigned to spurious groups, on the basis of random or minimal criteria, they still identify strongly with those groups and disparage those outside its ranks. A "grandfalloon" describes an out-group of some kind, which can be regarded as unredeemed. Who constitutes the out-group is immaterial—the point is to have one, thereby enhancing the in-group loyalty of cult members. In the case of left-wing cults, the most obvious out-group is the "bourgeoisie.""

In this case: TERFs, no?

Also this. Cults aim to eliminate exposure to other sources of ideas, and:
In time, their vocabulary shifts, so that cult-sanctioned words and expressions predominate. It becomes even harder to communicate with nonmembers, since both sides lack a common vocabulary with which to exchange ideas. This leaves cult followers more disposed than ever to the uncritical acceptance of their organization's propaganda.

sex = gender
woman = transwoman

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Agerbilatemycardigan · 22/11/2017 07:08

Well done Labour - you've just lost another voter.

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shhhfastasleep · 22/11/2017 06:24

Danger with using a template is that they will dismiss your view as organised right wing trivia.

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FlyMaybe · 21/11/2017 23:32

Has anyone got a template for a suitable letter to be sent to local party related to this issue?

Many thanks...

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RedToothBrush · 21/11/2017 22:19

Look at the balance of power here.
Some unhealthy dynamics that might put the state or some other individual into a position where they have control over a child which a parent can not challenge. Or allow a rebellious teenager to get at parents.
What could possibly go wrong?

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ArcheryAnnie · 21/11/2017 22:16

MrsFiona and LouHotel I've already emailed mine this evening. Typed it out and pressed "send" before i could change my mind. I basically said even if they didn't give a shit about women, they should give a shit about making Labour unelectable, and while I was still a Labour voter and activist, this would not continue forever if feminist women weren't welcome in the party.

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RedToothBrush · 21/11/2017 22:12

Ultimately I do think that one of the main reasons people are questioning is because they want reassurance of some kind.

Failure to understand that, won't lesson fear. If people find out somehow that someone isn't what they thought they were, then this might also produce a safeguarding issue too. People feeling they have been lied to or deliberately misled in a climate where concerns have not been listened to or addressed properly is a recipe for potential conflict points.

I was listening to radio 5 the other week and they had a transwoman guest on who was running a nail bar that was touring. The purpose was to encourage members of the public to ask questions including some that perhaps some trans people find intrusive because they recognised there was a need to do this to help bridge the gap.

This is a lot more helpful, plus it perhaps also offers the opportunity for trans people to understand what concerns the rest of the population might have too by taking them outside their own bubble.

I have a great deal more respect for this type of approach (provided of course it's not just an opportunity to spout information which is inaccurate). On the face of it at least, I think it far more productive.

Just suppressing questions is totally counter productive and leads to a bubbling resentment under the surface.

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nooka · 21/11/2017 22:11

It can be worse than that too. A parent in the LGBT Children board with a trans identifying teenage child was recently sent a letter from a solicitor instructed by the school because she had declined to use the child's newly adopted name and gender pronouns when communicating with school. These are really worrying times for parents of non conforming teenagers.

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LouHotel · 21/11/2017 21:53

Im going to be sending a letter to my local labour on what their stance is. If its clap trap and doesnt recognise the concerns of the erosion of womens rights i'll be cancelling my membership.

I'll still vote for them because whats the fucking alternative but they wont be getting my money and i wont be doorstepping.

I feel really let down by my party.

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MrsFionaCharming · 21/11/2017 21:48

I just showed this thread to DP. He’s cancelled his Labour Party membership and is emailing to tell them why.

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Tinycitrus · 21/11/2017 21:44

Yes - it’s national guidance in Scotland so I suppose that means every single school will be expected to adhere to this.

It bothers me that parents appear to be completely cut out of dialogue around this, whether they have a child who thinks they might be transgender or there is a transgender child who could be sharing a room with your daughter.

To question it is to be called out as a bigot. I don’t think I am a bigot.

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/11/2017 21:37

in Scotland is that teenage girls can be forced to share a room with a teenage boy. Parents have no right to be informed

I know that was already the case in girl guides guidelines, I suspect it may well be in other parts of the UK too.

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Tinycitrus · 21/11/2017 21:36

What also concerns me about that guidance quietly put out in Scotland is that teenage girls can be forced to share a room with a teenage boy. Parents have no right to be informed.

The girls -who may be experiencing their own challenges over body image/periods etc - are expected to just put up with it in the spirit of inclusivity.

Girls get to the back of the queue where you belong (and get used to it)

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