At a 19yr Old Transwoman being elected a Labour woman’s officer

[bambambini]

Seems the old WO stepped down after alleged bullying and accusation of transphobia. The new WO is a 19 yr old Transwoman - i think who made many of The allegations against the previous WO.

What experience has a 19 yr old TW got to hold this post - weirder than weird.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8

[ShotsFired]

@DrWibley Where did everyone think this gender thing was going? I am amazed people are surprised

The only good thing about this is that it means that more people are actually waking up to what the GRA bill will men in real life practice.

We need more of this sort of stuff to make people understand that it isn't just a few miserable old bitches complaining for the sake f being mean or TERFs, it is - and should be - of huge importance to every natal woman, for her and for the girls growing up behind her. We need to come together and say no.

[Lancelottie]

This kiddo is 19.
So is my son.
He too doesn't see what the fuss is about feminism and women's rights, because girls at his school always appeared to have it better than the boys (as in, less tendency to be shouted at by teachers; DD immediately asked him whether they were mucking about more than the girls and handing in less homework, by any chance).

He is well-meaning but embarrassingly clueless about much of life, but at least doesn't want to stand for politics on the basis of teenage twattery.

This child is at best a well-meaning chump who thinks they know it all by having survived school. Past record suggests, though that they are a shit-stirrer.

[Elendon]

I'll be betting my house that Lily couldn't give a fuck about abortion rights or any female rights.

Lily is not female. End of.

[Lancelottie]

I fear that it's not going to make people wake up, though, because plenty of men will agree with kiddo that women just limit themselves, look, anyone can do it, what are you all complaining about.

[NettleTea]

And please, if you are going to write to your MP, please see if we can get what we have all asked for from The Labour Party, but it has not been forthcoming

1. What is the definition of transphobia. In clear words. If its in the new NEC rulebook (and I voted against that rule change as it seemed so 'thought police')
   

1. As Labour Party members, are we allowed to discuss a proposed bill, which isnt even law yet, and is still in consultation. Are we allowed to discuss the impacts of the law on women and kids? Or is this an area that we are forbidden to discuss? because if it is Ive never heard anything like it - a Law being put through, by a Conservative government, which we, as Labour Party members, are not permitted to question.
   

Un-fucking-believable.

Women members are being silenced in every CLP across the country. Every women who holds a post of officer or above is being silenced, because to even discuss is deemed, by the mainly right on lefty dudes , as transphobic, and they risk being expelled from the party

Its a bad day when you have to rely upon a Tory Mp, with whom you share only a minority of beliefs, to bring a meeting to Parliament. I went. And I wrote this

fairplayforwomen.com/the-gender-recognition-act

and then things REALLY kicked off for me in my local branch!

[Lancelottie]

A transwoman is not a male!

Seriously? I mean, you genuinely think that? What makes them trans then?

Didn't their body develop in a typically and recognizably male phenotype, with typically male organs and hormones, and the capacity to produce sperm? Weren't they recognizably a boy (otherwise, presumably, no one would have objected to the skirt-wearing, except maybe on the grounds of chilly kneecaps)?

[InfiniteSheldon]

Thankyou for your honesty Nettle and my sincerest apologies that you have been subjected to this it shames me how little we are able to do to protect ourselves and those who fight on our behalf.

[LilaoftheGreenwood]

NettleTea, thanks, that explains a lot, both about what's actually happened here and why the Times have chosen, or been led, to pitch it the way they have, and stirred up the general raging hate we see in this thread. All very worrying.

[Elendon]

But Nettletea there is now #nodebate regarding what transphobia is. If you bring it up at all then you are labelled a bigot.

I know of a councillor who stands as the Labour MP and he is anti gay marriage. No one seems to have a problem with this, it's his choice. However mention the GRA and you are the scum of the earth.

[Tsundoku]

Or do those who think "transwomen are women" just think it's a massive coincidence that women across all cultures and throughout all of history have been systematically disadvantaged with respect to men?

I agree with all of your post, PricklyBall, but this is the question that I've never, ever had a decent answer to, when debating with transactivists. It's either:

a) denial: yes, cis-women have historically been at a disadvantage, in more primitive cultures... but all that ended when women got contraception and the vote. Everything is completely fine now, and actual biology is irrelevant.
All modern-day women's issues= erased.

b) deflection: you think cis-women have it bad? Transwomen are the most vulnerable, disadvantaged and abused social group ever.
All modern-day women's issues= dismissed.

c) re-positioning: female biology is actually a form of cis-privilege, so we should take care to discuss all women's rights issues relating to biology with the appropriate tact. We shouldn't use trans-exclusionary language, even if that means erasing women from discussions about female biology (eg an article about denial of endometriosis treatment being criticised for use of the word 'women', because 'not all women have wombs, and not all who have wombs are women'; an article about menstruation being criticised for the same, with the suggestion of substituting 'period-havers' for 'women').
All modern-day women's issues: tactful discussion only, please. Clearly and openly discussing women's health is less important than the feelings of those do not experience these issues.

d) personal attack: transphobe! why are you so obsessed with genitals! educate yourself!
All modern-day women's issues: just shut up.

In every case, the answer has involved women shutting the fuck up about their history and their rights. That's exactly why a transwoman being appointed Women's Officer is so concerning, and is more than a token right-on gesture to inclusivity.

[GabriellaMontez]

WTF?

A transwoman IS male.
A transwoman IS male.
A transwoman IS male.

A transwoman can wear whatever they want, call themselves what they want, have surgery, take hormones but they will still be a male.

[CAAKE]

Thanks for writing that @NettleTea and bless you for standing up for your principles in such a hostile environment.

[Lancelottie]

Dear Lily, if you are listening: please do something genuinely useful. Please campaign for an end to unwanted sex-stereotyping, for an end to biases against women and girls that stem from their biology and assumptions about it.
Campaign, if that floats your boat, for uniform rules that allow an equal choice of skirts and trousers, short hair or long, for girls and boys, and the same for adult men and women in prehistoric workplaces.
Campaign for the education of those who actually torment 'transkids' about their choices of hair or skirt or hobbies, or who persecute TIMs in the men's loos. (Though preferably go and do that one from a different post.)
Put your own situation out of mind for a bit, and campaign for biological women and girls to have equal rights and opportunities. It would have more weight coming from a biological male, because that, unfortunately, is the world we live in. Do some good with it.

[Shakey15000]

This is ridiculous. World going mad.

[Genevieva]

I don't know anyone trans. I do know that I feel compassion for anyone who is vulnerable or having some sort of identity crisis, as long as that doesn't involve trying to harm others. When women lose representation, and are instead represented by trans people, who are biologically different and have different needs and concerns, women lose their voices. Would it be so difficult to have a Transgender Officer as well as a Women's Officer, to ensure that these two different groups of people have their needs listened to and fought for?

[dinosaursandtea]

Having looked at her experience, I think the new officer is likely to do a lot of good. I’ve worked in organisations where trans women lead a lot of the feminist work, and it’s always focused on the traditional issues of abortion, sexual assault etc, but with one additional layer of support for women who were assigned a different gender at birth. I’m proud that politicians are moving in the right direction with the GRA. Transphobia needs to be condemned wherever it’s found.

[catgirl1976]

No one is assigned a gender at birth dinosaur. Their biological sex however, is recorded.

[user1471459936]

"Assigned a different gender at birth"... hahahahahahaha! Righto.

[Elendon]

Will they address the issue of sexual assault and rape by transwomen though dinosaurandtea

Will they?

[catgirl1976]

Will they represent the views of women who are concerned that the GRC bill in it's current form would erase and damage women's rights and protections?

Or do those women not count?

[Elendon]

They were confirmed their biological sex at birth.

Gender was assigned during the scans.

[MillicentFawcett]

What really fucking gets on my tits (the ones I grew because I have XX chromosomes) is that transwomen are continually telling us that we are not entitled to speak to their experience because we don't understand it. And yet at the same time, they are allowed to speak over us about our experience because we're all women.

Either you're transwomen and we're women or we're all a homogeneous blob which means there is fuck all difference between transwomen and natal women. But no, you want to have it both ways

[DrWibley]

Will they keep male rapists out of women's prisons?

[TheEgregiousPeach]

Oh Dinosaur, for goodness sake. Even the truly gender dysphoric don't want the bill to go through. And I doubt Lily is that focussed on feminist work given she kicked the feminist who was in the job out, based on what appears to be a smear campaign

[FlowerPot1234]

women who were assigned a different gender at birth.

But nobody is assigned a gender at birth.
Biological sex is determined.
Males are assigned to the male sex.
Females are assigned to the female sex.

No females are assigned "a different gender at birth".