At a 19yr Old Transwoman being elected a Labour woman’s officer

[bambambini]

Seems the old WO stepped down after alleged bullying and accusation of transphobia. The new WO is a 19 yr old Transwoman - i think who made many of The allegations against the previous WO.

What experience has a 19 yr old TW got to hold this post - weirder than weird.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenager-lily-madigan-voted-in-as-a-labour-women-s-officer-mwchkhzq8

Is it mean to hope that this teenager will be deluged with constituents wanting to discuss discrimination during pregnancy, maternity leave, abortion rights, teenage mothers, breast cancer care, #MeToo, sex discrimination, assault, HRT and work-life balance?

I'm sure Lily would tell you that any woman (or cis woman as she would say) who wanted to discuss these issues with a Women's Officer would automatically be a transphobe as these are not issues which affect 'all women' (e.g. not transwomen) so are not suitable for discussion with a Women's Officer. I am also sure she would tell you that to try and discuss those issues with her as women's officer would be 'literal violence which kills thousands of trans people every day.'

In other words, shut up, I'm more important because I was born with a dick.

Transwomen are biologically male. Just because someone sincerely believes something (that they are female, that the world is flat, that god put dinosaur fossils into rocks to test their faith) does not make it true.

I fully support transwomen's human rights - the right not to be subject to violence or harrassment, the right not to be excluded from employment or housing because of how they choose to dress and express themselves. But they cannot have women's rights because women's rights are to do with protecting our human rights as women (the right to political expression, employment, bodily autonomy) in the context of our specific biology (our ability to become pregnant, our need to control whether we become pregnant and choose to carry that pregnancy to term, our vulnerability during pregnancy and breast feeding).

Or do those who think "transwomen are women" just think it's a massive coincidence that women across all cultures and throughout all of history have been systematically disadvantaged with respect to men?

DB22 chances are, Lily still has not undergone a 'full transition'. Most transwomen don't.

Poising pen to write to MP.
So gutted on behalf of women in this constituency who are going to be represented by Lily. It is too problematic, Lily has a record of litigious action against those who question her, and is prone to hectoring women as to what they should expect as women. With this as a starting point, it is disingenuous to expect women to feel they will be sincerely represented by Lily on any matter pertaining to being ...a woman. But shit, it must be so validating for Lily.
And 19 years old? Who else stood in this election?

Lubey- the fact your first line of defence is a a load of insults says much about the content of your argument.

A transwoman may not be male but they are also not female.

Women should be able to go into a women's only changing room and know there is no one with a dick in there.

I'm not a bit surprised but I am enraged.

I wonder who the fuck I will vote for in coming years.

Lubey the trans-activists have said #nodebate
So with that in mind. Don't post. Don't engage. Don't think.
Be a good little handmaid. Do as you are told.
Off you go dear.
Leave this to women not scared of getting shit done.

My education says a woman is a woman and a transwoman is a transwoman. There is a difference in both birth biology and experiences growing up (whether founded in your own perceptions or foisted on you by society).

Pencil Google suggests Lily started transition last year.

Pricklyball I agree with all you have said. Lubey instead of throwing insults maybe you can come back and rationally argue each point Pricklyball has made?

pricklyball
You’ve expressed what I think a lot of caring well educated women think about this issue.

Honestly I do think we're getting there. The Times is out. Jess Phillips is out. A year ago we just had weirdo right wingers and a couple of stalwarts who were being no platformed left right and centre (Germaine - I am sorry for ever doubting you).

Ironically I think #nodebate is making people realise that we need a debate.

I am absolutely a natural trans ally politically. They can stick it up their arses now and if they have lost people like me they have lost. It just might take another little while for them to realise it.

This lily character is clearly just another man who gets off on pushing women around. Nothing new there. What is new is official (as opposed to covert) support of such behaviour by labour.
Terrible mess tho they are I’d say vote Tory - at least they’ve managed to produce two women leaders who are actually, you know, women

The fact their tagline is no debate says it all. In other words, ' we will scream and shout until we get on our own way and you have no say.' if you think you are right about something you should be able to argue it.

Lubey please explain what a woman is as clearly our scientific definition is wrong.

Also, if you could explain to me how a 19 year old who has never experienced pregnancy, periods, maternity leave, or any discrimination based on their biology is equipped to represent women’s needs and concerns that would be great.

AS someone posted on another thread (sorry can’t remember who) if transwomen are women, then women are also transwomen. So it’s presumably fine for a straight woman to take the post of lgbt officer?

Trans women have used the #metoo hashtag, so I don't expect that would be a problem for Lily. Maternity and abortion rights though, otoh, I'd be interested to see how Lily intends to work to promote those.

Great, now who I do vote for at the next election?

Google suggests Lily started transition last year.

What does that mean though? Social transition (clothes and pronouns)? Hormones? It won't mean surgery yet. Most transwomen don't opt for bottom surgery in any case.

I think I am an electricity pylon.
I want to be an electricity pylon.
I identify as an electricity pylon.
I demand the world regards me as an electricity pylon.
I demand a field be given to me now.

No idea Pencil. It's being done in the NHS so presumably hormonal so maybe not surgical. Either way, Lily was hormonally and physically male when she stepped into that changing room full of teen girls. As a mother of a teen girl that really pisses me off.

I don't think there's any party which is behaving sensibly on this one. Certainly not Labour here (though I applaud all the Labour officials in that constituency who quit when "Lily" was put in place), certainly not the Tories (Maria Miller and her attempts to drive the new anti-women legislation through), not the Greens, who drunk the kool-aid before anyone else (though a shoutout to the Gender-Critical Greens, who are doing a fine job in difficult circumstances) and who cares what the Lib Dems think?

Oh FFS. This is utterly ridiculous.

OK People

Probably outing myself but sod it

I was also on the committee that Anne was women's officer for. We all walked out. The trans issue was what finished Anne and I but wasnt everything about what was going on in our CLP, which all boiled down to one individual that was causing havoc in a role he originally had on the executive committee (soon 'no confidenced' out of) as a secretary of a smaller sub branch (which I believe he may next be put out of) and many many other things.

This person fed Annes anonymous twitter feed to Lily. Anne had said nothing abusive, but as an active feminist she shared tweets from many groups that shared concerns about the GRA changes. She and I attended the gender debate held in Brighton during conference, the week after our colleague got belted at speakers corner.

Lily tried to get her out of our CLP at that point, but as she isnt a member of our branch, our secretaty batted it into the long grass. Whether Lily took it higher or not we do not know - they certainly threatened to.

I too jhad been really badly bullied by the same individual who fed the stuff to Lily. They abused their role as admin on our CLP's page to do all sorts of shit. They got other people to submit motions to our CLP to force the resignation of anyone who posted anything transphobic. And another one asking for any FEMINISTS doing the same to be kicked out. But would not allow debate on the subject and used inflammatory terms in order to prejudice people before the vote

Lily belongs to a different CLP (constituency Labour party branch) so their being elected womens officer may be off the back of this, but they havenrt replaced Anne.

Our CLP's womens forum requested Anne to chair last Friday's women's meeting, even though she is no longer officer. In the absence of any officers, they wanted to meet. So it was an informal meet up, but certainly good to know we have the support of many of our women members

Despite many many requests and reports we still dont know if the regional section are going to do anything about this individual. we suspect they are planning a takeover as they have the support of a certain number of very young members who have fallen for the victim story, and believe its a plot from the right of the party. 5 of us were certainly to the left, but thats what he is going with.

Labour is a mess. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

A transwoman is not a male!

A transwoman is not a female either.