To find this Samaritans/rail suicide reduction campaign video simplistic and upsetting?

[IWroteThisSongForYou]

Link

Basically video is: announcement on train platform saying there's been a serious incident, woman left a note at home and went to station to take her own life... but - all is well, someone intervened and spoke to her, starting her recovery journey, and in fact it is her making the announcement, and yes, you too could help someone by intervening.

I get it, it's good if people intervene if they see something odd. Glad woman was saved, hope others are too.

But... it seems to be spectacularly missing the point. What drove her to that point? More importantly - what happened after someone intervened in that moment?

It just seems to be reinforcing the simplistic (and prevalent, IME) idea that someone has a suicidal crisis, needs to be "saved" and presumably whisked off to a team of dedicated, kindly, caring professionals, given lots of TLC from others, probably some kind of therapy or something and then all is well, gorgeous young woman is gorgeous functional young woman again, with a story to tell of how she came so close to the brink, and yey! All is well.

And we can all feel like good, thoughtful people, and do the head-tilt smile-grimace that represents "serious, meaningful face" (for a demonstration, see video at 0.51) when we hear about it.

I actually think we're not bad, overall, at wanting to step in and do something. Like the everyday heroes you see after accidents or attacks. But has anyone else felt utterly hopeless and exhausted explaining to well-meaning people that yes, they have "taken the first step" and sought help, but it's the million and one steps after that that are so difficult. Or attempted to explain to them that help was sought, but not forthcoming. People don't seem to know or care what happens after one is pulled back from the brink. Mental health services are in a terrible state. This I know who have killed themselves, or come close, have all attempted to get help beforehand. They ended up in that state because the help wasn't there, and because society overall isn't very good at supporting people who are struggling like that.

I just find this video really upsetting, and very much seems to be made from the POV of someone who has no clue of the reality of what drives people to feel so desperate.

*Those I know who have killed themselves

Totally agree with you, well said, there’s a saying about judging morals of a society, government, country whatever by how it treats its vulnerable, the UK is abysmal in that respect

Y a B a bit U.

Yes, some people would have jumped on front of the next train instead, bit just talking will "save" some people. That's the whole point of the Samaritans - they believe in self-determination not saving people, and they believe that by just talking to someone a situation can begin to seem less desperate.

I'm sorry it's upset you, genuinely so.
The tragic thing about suicide is that it usually is an impulse and every intervention helps. By which I mean that intervening won't always stop an individual dying, but that changes that affect many people, like the rules for buying paracetamol or notices with the Samaritan's number at suicide hot spots, do lead to a reduction in deaths.

I'd love it if there were a team of kindly, dedicated professionals waiting to step in but resources are stretched so thinly... I don't think you're being unreasonable in that it doesn't show the challenge and complexity of suicidal ideation however it's a 60 second advert for a charity trying to raise funds and recruit volunteers so it was never going to present the hardness of it all.

I find it offensive. I lost my DF to suicide as a child. A friend posted it on facebook and it really upset me tbh.

Psychiatrist here who dislikes it. It’s simplistic and I feel some organisations focus almost exclusively on keeping someone physically alive in the short term but not on creating a life worth living.

It’s like the mental health equivalent of indiscriminate, indefinite use of life support (clumsy analogy, I know).

I see the value of crisis intervention, but I feel suicide is so much more complex than some give it credit for.

YANBU OP while I’m sure the message is well intentioned, it is rather simplistic and idealistic. Many get to this point because they have not had the help and support they needed in the first place. What about the family and friends of those that have been fighting for better care and support for their loved ones with MH issues, is the only hope they have to be that the hope a stranger will intervene if they try to commit suicide.

As someone who has quite literally picked up the pieces post suicide (paramedic) I think it’s a good thing. Simplistic yes but I think of how many people have witnessed said suicidal person trackside..... and also witnessed many lamenting about the ‘inconvenience’ that trains are suspended on their way home.

It may take one person at the right time to potentially save a life, what goes on after that who knows.
I know full well the MH services in this country are severely lacking and IME those who choose to take their life this way can be very much under the radar, it is an impulse thing and ultimately a finality. But just think if that person did get help via an intervention.....

YABU it has to be simplified for the majority to accept, it's not the be all and end all of Samaritans views and achievements.

I have mixed feelings on this. I am someone who life has been touched by this issue and by lack of MH services so it hits close to home. I do kind of agree that it is good to look out for other people and help someone who is in trouble. A huge majority of suicide attempts are cries for help and many of us who have survived them feel glad that someone intervened. I am of course speaking generally, that is not the case with all suicidal people.

BUT... I feel that the emphasis on "saving" someone puts a burden on those who are faced with someone actively trying to hurt themselves in public. Emphasis needs to be on getting the person physically safe as is possible and then the real help for that persons mental health needs to be left to professionals. If I were faced with witnessing someone trying to do this I would do as much as I coudl to keep them safe etc then leave the rest to those trained to help. I have enough going on in y own life as it is. I appreciate many depressed people may be lonely or lack a support network but I really do not think I could handle more than just geting that person to a safe place and letting the experts take over.

I have not yet seen the ad, so please excuse me, if I am talking out my bum here

I agree with you OP, having just watched it.

It's a feelgood mental health campaign advert. Designed to make the people surrounding a suicidal person feel better about it, rather than the person who is actually suicidal.

People affected by the suicide of others - either attempted or completed - need support, I am not disputing that. It must be horrific to be the person witnessing someone stepping out in front of a train, just as it's horrific to be told by police that your loved one has taken their own life. Everyone in any way connected to the event is affected negatively.

But lets not pretend that suicidal ideation or attempts are all fixed with a heart to heart with a well meaning stranger - because it isn't. Mental health services are largely non existent. I'm also not down with the trend for pathologizing shitty lives that are plagued by poverty, illness, addiction or abuse, as treatment resistant depression or personality disorders.

A little disappointed in the Samaritans for adding to the general wave of 'mental health awareness' that kind of misses a lot of points, tbh.

I haven’t watched but from your post: From a cold, clinical point of view, it is broadly right. Research has shown that very small amounts of intervention at the point of a suicide attempt do save lives. There was a study done when they installed phones on a bridge. They followed the people who had used the phones when they were in crisis and they found that mostly after the crisis, people recovered and didn’t attempt again.

Non-clinically and angrily, MH services are woeful, cheap and underfunded. No one should have to wait for skilled care. Quality of life is actually important and MH is ignored.

So what do you want them to say? "We'll have a wee chat with you but ultimately you're still up shit creek?"

I found out ten days ago about the exact way that my daughter is planning to commit suicide from her school ELSA. It was their first session and it came out within ten minutes. It has made an enormous difference because we're finally getting the support we have needed for years and there is a tiny glimmer of hope that we can unlock that piece inside her that will make her see the value in living.

So the Samaritan's advert may seem simplistic to you but it really can take just a few minutes to make a huge difference.

Before anyone asks I have spent four yeats being bumped from pillar to post trying to get her support because I thought it would be better to sort her out before she got so low and so resigned to her depression and so committed to self harm.

Entirely agree OP.
Sick of 'mental health awareness' and 'ask for help' when mh services are in such a dire state.
People are getting neither crisis nor ongoing help. Many people if taken from the platform where they were about to jump to A&E would be sent home with little or nothing. Especially young women either certain diagnoses what if this was the 10th time in as many weeksshe'd attempted and everyone was 'sick of it', her again, can't be serious, attention-seeking...
Designed to make the people surrounding a suicidal person feel better about it, rather than the person who is actually suicidal. Exactly that, and everything else in AbsentMinded said.

Broken11Girl Yeah the attention seeking myth does my head in. I have even seen it on MN as regards self harm. It upsets me. No one would do that for attention unless they really felt they needed it.

Broken11Girl The certain diagnoses thing as well. I spent many many years being made to feel like I was a waste of time by MH services because of my label of "personality disorder," Which is really just another way of saying complex trauma or CPTSD in an atypical form.

I know chocolate, seen it on here too. I'm sorry you were made to feel like a timewaster, me too Agree CPTSD is a better label.

I agree re the dire state of MH services.

However I don't begrudge a charity which can offer some support doing something to raise awareness. At least they are offering services which are accessible and free.

YABU.
I understand the thoughts of some regarding longer term help and what happens after a suicidal person is removed from that situation. I really do.
But I was that person, stood on a bridge ready to jump. What saved me wasn't a person but an animal, believe it or not. But in any case. Without that intervention (be it from platform staff or a cute cat with one eye) they'll never get to that point of longer term intervention. They whole point of this advert is to be aware and ensure that if you do see somebody who may be in distress to go and speak to them.
The nhs is in a bloody sorry state - I know. But what else can be done at this stage? Short of going well you won't get help anyway may as well jump??

I agree with @MrsTerryPratchett.

I think it is true to say that someone who is absolutely determined to take their own life will go ahead whatever happens. They won't tell anyone their plans either.

I saw the BBC item on the Samaritans advert and believe the campaign comes from a good place - it's about noticing what is going on with others and showing people they are not alone. I don't think that people who kill themselves have necessarily been failed by mental health services or the NHS. It's far, far more complex.

I think it is true to say that someone who is absolutely determined to take their own life will go ahead whatever happens. They won't tell anyone their plans either.

Statistically that isn't true. Maybe for some people but there have been a lot of studies that show that for most people it is short term window in which they are in crisis and disrupting that window has a really really high success rate.

Not for everyone, and MH services are still shit but it's true. I was someone saved by a stranger. He didn't even know. I was walking down the stairs to the tube platform. I was going to jump while in a psychotic state. He stopped me and asked if I was ok - nice elderly man, very polite. I burst into tears and ran away. But having someone make that contact pushed me back from the edge. Such a tiny thing but so important.

If you do ask for help you'll wind up spending several unpleasant hours in A&E only to be sent home alone with no help forthcoming. There isn't any.

YABU. The whole purpose of the Samaritans is to offer people the chance to talk. They are a charity committed to helping reduce suicides. What's going on in the NHS is not their responsibility. It may be simplistic but any life saved by someone intervening is surely worth it. I believe the Samaritans work closely with Network Rail to address the issue of suicides and to support those who work on the railways, such as train drivers, who suffer themselves through the impact of suicide.

It doesn't matter to Samaritans what is weighing on their service users. They don't trivialise or dismiss anyone's situation (so that bit doesn't matter to them it's not a competition nor for schadenfreude type gloating). As for the tough journey to health. Yes perhaps some honesty. But at the same time, putting anyone off that brings you straight back to seeking a way out.
They are also a crisis service. They focus on that moment or collection of moments.