To find this Samaritans/rail suicide reduction campaign video simplistic and upsetting?

[IWroteThisSongForYou]

Link

Basically video is: announcement on train platform saying there's been a serious incident, woman left a note at home and went to station to take her own life... but - all is well, someone intervened and spoke to her, starting her recovery journey, and in fact it is her making the announcement, and yes, you too could help someone by intervening.

I get it, it's good if people intervene if they see something odd. Glad woman was saved, hope others are too.

But... it seems to be spectacularly missing the point. What drove her to that point? More importantly - what happened after someone intervened in that moment?

It just seems to be reinforcing the simplistic (and prevalent, IME) idea that someone has a suicidal crisis, needs to be "saved" and presumably whisked off to a team of dedicated, kindly, caring professionals, given lots of TLC from others, probably some kind of therapy or something and then all is well, gorgeous young woman is gorgeous functional young woman again, with a story to tell of how she came so close to the brink, and yey! All is well.

And we can all feel like good, thoughtful people, and do the head-tilt smile-grimace that represents "serious, meaningful face" (for a demonstration, see video at 0.51) when we hear about it.

I actually think we're not bad, overall, at wanting to step in and do something. Like the everyday heroes you see after accidents or attacks. But has anyone else felt utterly hopeless and exhausted explaining to well-meaning people that yes, they have "taken the first step" and sought help, but it's the million and one steps after that that are so difficult. Or attempted to explain to them that help was sought, but not forthcoming. People don't seem to know or care what happens after one is pulled back from the brink. Mental health services are in a terrible state. This I know who have killed themselves, or come close, have all attempted to get help beforehand. They ended up in that state because the help wasn't there, and because society overall isn't very good at supporting people who are struggling like that.

I just find this video really upsetting, and very much seems to be made from the POV of someone who has no clue of the reality of what drives people to feel so desperate.

Totally agree with you, well said, there’s a saying about judging morals of a society, government, country whatever by how it treats its vulnerable, the UK is abysmal in that respect.

I took an overdose with the intention of killing myself.

At the hospital I was treated amazingly. I came into contact with multiple nurses and doctors during that night.

I even saw a councillor that night and had a follow up appointment with him afterwards.

I've also rang the Samaritans who were incredible. They even offer a callback for whenever you want to check up on you.

Without any of the above I would be dead by now. I don't think the UK is abysmal.

There is a (British?) reserve about not embarrassing people that can lead us to not wanting to speak to someone who is upset in public. Asking “are you ok?” when they clearly aren’t. Anyway the ad, and the experiences some posters have shared on this thread, would make me think that no, actuallly, speaking to someone in distress might be what they need rather than them being better off if I leave them alone. That seems like a good thing.

I think you're being unreasonable, and conflating two separate things. As a PP has said, Samaritans are not the NHS and the issues surrounding receiving mental health services are not their issue. They are a charity and they are designed to intervene at a crisis point. Their whole ethos is that they are there to talk when an individual feels so alone and that there's no way out.

The whole point of the advert is to advertise their services, and the act of intervention, and the positive effect that they have on some people. Even if the advert just makes someone remember the name of the charity or their phone number, or makes one person stop and talk to another person, the advert has done its job.

Suicide statistics (particularly on the railway) show that this time of the year, more that any other, sees more people attempt to take their lives. Samaritans can't force people to call them, but they can remind people that they're there. That is the point of the advert, not to get in to what drove the woman in it to that point, nor what happened afterwards, but to tell people that intervention at the point of crisis can make a big difference.

I think yabu. Its an advert to make the public vigilent about people being suicidal in public. Its simply about intervention in a moment where a life could be saved. Its not the general publics responsability to know why someone is suicidal or find out what treatment they receive afterwards.iand samaritans believe its a human right to end your life any time you want which i agree with. My very close friend committed suicide 3 years ago and she did it privately so no one could save her. Anoother friend attempted suicide last year but was found in time. She has put it on fb to explain her feelings.

It’s a good advert for Samaritan’s and their specific remit.

I think it feels a bit ‘out of kilter’ for those that see the bigger issue being the critical state of the NHS and the lack of care available for many afterwards, or in the lead up to a planned suicide attempt.

There is money, the government are choosing not to spend it on the NHS. Policy makers are choosing to keep mental health as one of the most under resourced specialisms. This is what feels closer and more relevant to me than what the advert was about...

But maybe that means there is a need for that advert after all, to bring peoples attention back to what they can do in just a few words, rather than what feels massive and unstoppable actions of our government.

I am in full agreement with the OP, and I am a Samaritan.

It is ridiculously over simplistic and really quite condescending, both towards victims of suicide and towards those who have lost someone in this way.

I also (minor point) dislike the use of a woman, when the overwhelming number of train fatalities are men.

Thank you fleur.

Just posting to say I am reading the replies and taking them all in. Thank god for the one-eyed cat, the elderly gentleman, the school ELSA...

I don't know, I sort of feel I can see both sides of this. But as someone dealing with suicidal feelings*, who may well not ask for help if the time comes, precisely because I know there is no help forthcoming, it actually made me feel awful and hopeless. Like my life, my experiences, aren't supposed to have happened, can't have happened, according to society. Makes me feel like a ghost, living between the cracks of reality.

And it concerns me that reinforcing the simplistic narrative means others like me will be disbelieved, assumed to not be trying to "help themselves" and so on. I have suffered due to this narrative as people can assume not getting help means you haven't tried to get help. And so they judge you, and give up on you.

It's interesting the stats say most people have this one-off crisis - I've only known of it happeing once so didn't realise. It's a shame we can't balance things out by ALSO doing something about what happens next, so it is a on-off for others too.

[*NOT ACTIVELY SUICIDAL. To save MN the bother, here's the Samaritans phone number for UK: 116 123]

to all dealing with suicide or suicidal feelings.

Well - at least if someone does intervene, at the point where someone is suicidal, at crisis point and about to act on it, that person is alive and unharmed, and may be able to get help. Better than the alternative.

I think the advert had to be clearly differentiated from the very successful #FindMike campaign.

Just sums up the Samaritans for me.

... which was a true story.

This one is also a true story. That in itself suggests that someone intervening can work. It might not always work. It might not be the right solution for some people but the campaign could save lives. I'm sure a lot of thought went into planning the advert.

I'm sure it did as well and as a volunteer, I obviously have no wish to denigrate the good work done by Samaritans. However, as the post above shows, it does rather suggest that 'all' it takes to prevent a suicide is talking to someone.

If this was appearing in isolation I wouldn't mind so much but it isn't. It is a much-appeared theme of late: that people who are mentally ill are in fact lonely, and by reaching out to them and being their friend, you can cure their mental illness: in fact, you can save their life! Wow! I had to sit through a buttock clenchingly awful song at work last year that I just tried to find for you on YouTube and cannot (lucky you!) Kate Middleton and Prince William are attempting to remove the stigma surrounding mental health with a charity. It all seems a little - dare I say it - trendy?

It's also not at all accurate. The idea that behind the wall of depression there is a warm, friendly world reaching out to you is a false one. Treatment for mental health is appalling. I have to smile cynically and wonder if lovely willowy Kate has ever actually been inside a psychiatric ward - I doubt it, and I don't blame her. I have, as a visitor rather than patient thankfully, and concluded that if one wasn't quite mad on the way in they would be on the way out. I had to greet someone's turd and call it Sir, had a baked potato thrown at my head and on a rather more grave note heard screaming, groaning, pleading, crying. I'll never forget that. (Slightly more lightly, the person I was visiting hissed in my ear "Get me out! They are all fucking mad in here!" )

It's also incredibly misleading to suggest that loneliness and/or lack of friends is the root cause of mental health. Of course, many people with depression are lonely, but a lot of the time this is a side effect of the illness: depressed people often elicit to be alone rather than in crowds and this can be something that perpetuates over time and becomes a habit. And many depressed people have family and friends who love them; additionally many lonely people are not depressed.

I think rather than presenting mental health and suicide as something that can be avoided by talking, it might be ultimately more conducive to continue promoting the Samaritans as trained volunteers, in theory at least and to urge suicidal people to contact them and not to rely on well meaning but untrained people to step in where even medical professionals cannot.

"some organisations focus almost exclusively on keeping someone physically alive in the short term but not on creating a life worth living"
^^
This with bells on plus people that say "attention seeking" and "what happens next"
The NHS are woeful (generally) at dealing with MH issues.
I have been that person on the bridge, I called a crisis line for help and guess what - ended up in a police cell overnight because the NHS didn't bother and the police had no choice but to arrest me as a "vulnerable person displaying alarming behaviour".
How can doctors and nurses - supposedly caring people - do this? Why is it such a post code lottery where in one place I will be well treated and looked after for as long as it takes and another kicked out into the night in an unfamiliar place with no money or means to get home being told "I just like stirring up a frenzy".
I still attempt suicide regularly because no one yet has focused on helping deal with the underlying issues to lead to a life worth living because there are no resources to do so. So they continue to firefight deal with multiple crises at stupid cost rather than put funding where it can actually help.
Rant over and glad I have not seen the advert. Will actively avoid it now and tell dc to do the same - don't want them to even consider they have any level of guilt for not doing something so simplistic believing it works in the long term. Sadly they have lived with the effects of the current system for way too long

OP, you are criticising the video for not delivering a message that it was never intended to deliver.

The overarching method is about interruption of the thoughts that lead someone to kill themselves. That interruption is fundamental, and can save their life. That's how the Samaritans can help here.

This video is all about interrupting the train of thought and of intent. In doing that, I think it's pretty effective.

What happens after - that is mental health services. Which are in a dire state, you are quite correct. But this is not what this video is about, or is trying to be about. It's getting in there earlier.

These types of messages, including a recent hit tv show, put a massive amount of guilt and questioning on loved ones left behind.
If a perfect stranger could intervene and save a life, how could I not have prevented the death of my partner/mother/friend?? Could I not have done more? Could I have stopped it? No, no, no.
So much more needs to be done to actually, truly understand mental health issues.

it seems to me the ad is getting people talking about suicide which imo is a good thing. I've been unlucky enough to witness a stranger take his own life, had no opportunity to speak to him though as he jumped from a tall building. That experience changed me irreversibly. I've also been suicidal as a result of that experience and the ptsd which followed, which seems so nonsensical now. I've experienced really poor NHS support and really excellent NHS support, and I've called Samaritans on more than one occasion. I'd always reach out if I saw someone distressed, because for me it's the kind and human thing to do, but appreciate that not everyone feels able to do so.

My worry about the video is whether it places blame on innocent bystanders. I don't commute by train any more but when I did, I was usually reading my book, snoozing or listening to my iPod. I probably wouldn't have noticed someone looking distressed, and if I did, I probably wouldn't have said anything, though I did once offer a tissue to a woman who was in silent tears.

One week in four I struggle with suicidal thoughts. It's a version of PMS, I live with it, I have tried to get help and unless I want to take SSRIs there is no help available. If one month I give in, I wouldn't want anyone else to feel responsible for not stopping me. It's not Mr, Mrs or Ms Rail Passenger's job.

FlowerPot What happens after - that is mental health services. Which are in a dire state, you are quite correct. But this is not what this video is about, or is trying to be about. It's getting in there earlier.

But it misses the point that they might be at the stage of suicide precisely because they sought help and there wasn't any.

Having worked in the rail industry and knowing how prevalent it is and the devastating effects on the poor driver I think this is a good thing.
The Samaritans can't address everything that's wrong with mental health in one quick ad, neither is it their place to do so. Most people are clever enough to work out there's a bigger issue behind anyone contemplating suicide. What this does is heighten awareness and hopefully help someone.

Even if this prompts one conversation its worth it. Many of us would hesitate before approaching a stranger to offer help. Maybe this will just help one or two people to trust their instincts and ask the question.

IWroteThisSongForYou
But it misses the point that they might be at the stage of suicide precisely because they sought help and there wasn't any.

Very true and again, you are quite correct about the state of mental health services in the before part too.

But still the video and the message is not about that part. It is about interrupting the as-they-are-about-to-do-it stage.

I agree it is simplistic and although it might help in that instant, OP you are so right in saying that what has happened before and after is so often lacking and often contributes to the person getting to that point.

My DH has been suicidal many times as the hard part for him is living with his illness, and the challenge of having a life worth living as acatcalledathenry says. Wow, that really brings tears to my eyes.

I/ and we find it increasingly hard to find meaning in this world and to live a life that brings some small joy amongst the constant struggles and battles with NHS and DWP etc, and we persist despite the NHS (and the political views that shape it), not because of it.

And we have had other people berating us for 'not getting any help' when in fact there is none (or none worth having - merely a box ticking exercise to show that some 'service' is being offered). I agree, the Royals etc mean well, but so many of these campaigns ignore the complex long-term struggles that some people have. (I sort of include myself as I struggle with CPTSD though thankfully I don't hurt as severely as some people are hurting.)

The whole thing is devastatingly traumatic and I really can't find the right words to express how I feel.

Obviously I wouldn't want people not to intervene, particularly as some people's MH can reach crisis in spite of good things in their life and so they can find a life to go back to, and not everywhere has terrible MH provision... but yes, the problem is for many people that the life they have to go back to is one of near constant pain and hopelessness/ powerlessnesss - and sadly sometimes the NHS is absolutely a big factor in cementing those beliefs.

But OP without wanting to sound trite, who knows what can come from this thread you created... its presence on a major website and with a lot of web traffic.. maybe it will cause even one person to think differently (and express that politically) and will be part of making a positive change... that is what I have to hope anyway. I need something to cling on to!!

to everyone affected xx